Tuning A 1.9 Gti For Track Use

[Guest Dobins]

Hi all looks like ive got a 205 gti now, im going to be using it as a track car, got the cage, brakes and suspension sorted, just want to get a bit more out of the engine where can i buy parts from any tuners etc(qep) noticed this name a few times but dont know them do you reccomend anyone. Also will the 1.6 box be better for track use ? Any help is appreciated.

 

Going for the omp bolt in cage (16kgs)

Gti 6 big brake upgrade unless you can reccomend any decent 4 pots

Gaz coilovers not sure what to do with the rear ?

 

Thanks

[projectpug 0]

Depends on your budget and what your really after 8v tuning can be expensive. QEP are well known and can supply BVH and cams etc.

There are loads of good brake kits AP,Hi spec and wilwood are the common ones. -Common just to keep stock brakes and fit good pads,discs and hoses though.

Rear just fit uprated pads and braided hoses and make sure you go for a good brake fluid bled thoroughly.

 

The GAZ coilovers and omp cage are again a very popular product on the 205 for track use and extremely suitable . Just to let you know although its bolt in the mounts are still all welded in.

[Guest Dobins]

Cheers for the help didnt realise that about the cage ow stupid am i, im new to 205's always wanted one when i was younger but went down the vauxhall route spending silly money modding them. Got a company car now so thought i deserved a toy. I want it to be quick and drivable not to mad, will the 1.6 box be better for track use and whats involved in fitting it.

 

thanks

[Redtop 14 2 Cars]

I'd agree with the above suggestions. There is probably a fair few miles on your engine, so getting a compression test done, and rolling road tested for ball park figures would be a good idea, and if it's down then even a rebuild in standard form will help you have more performance. There was a fully re-built engine on e-bay a while back that no one bidded on. It might be re-listed again and it could be a good buy for you as most of the work has been done to it. That and a good exhaust system, intake, breather pipes all clean dirt free and if you wanted carbs that are set-up right would be a good combo to start with .

[Guest Dobins]

cheers i was going to look into rebuilding it, how much and where can i find a set of carbs for mine

 

cheers

[projectpug 0]

Hi,

 

 

Carb set ups can be found on here in complete kits fairly simple common conversion on a 205 in either weber 40's or 45's.

Carbs and a decently rebuilt head with a 285 cam would be good for track use and give good midrange power.

1.6 box is a good cheap way to make the car rev better due to the gearing. Another option is the mi16 final drive in the 1.9 box.

If yours is a be3 now you ideally want a be3 1.6 and then its just a straight swap. Lift up reverse is be1 and reverse behind 5th is be3 the later better imo box.

 

Cheers

[edbar 6]

A friend of mines 205 had challenge spec bilstien suspension,rebuilt and balanced engine piper 285 cam and 45 dcoe's, yokohama ao48r tyres, 1.6 box and that was a fantastic car on a very small budget, was capable of showing up much more expensive machinery! Look out for good second hand buys in the classifieds and ebay.

[weejimmy 1]

look into geting a price for a 16v conversion, mi16 etc

as tunning the 8v is expensive for verly little gains,

and a mi16 on a track is great fun,

 

search on here and other places.

[Rob Thomson 6]

I really wouldn't bother with uprated brakes, other than fitting some new discs and decent pads (ie. Mintex 1144s). And make sure the standard calipers and flexible hoses are in good condition.

 

I'd leave the engine standard and just have some fun in the corners. The problem with the 16V conversions is oil surge. My old Mi16 was great in a straight line, but try to take a corner quickly and the pressure gauage drops to zero and the warning light comes on, which completely negates the point.

[projectpug 0]

Problem with mi's on track is getting them reliable isn't cheap. For regular work i think dry sump is about the only system that works and costs 2k ish. Where 8v don't seem to suffer the oil surge of an mi as much.

[Guest Dobins]

What sort of bhp can you get out of a 1.9 8v for about 1000-1500 quid inc diff

[Saveit 0]

If your lucky you can get about 150 hp. Every hp more than that needs serious engine tuning.

 

To get about 150hp you can buy an XU10 head off an 306 8v 2.0 XSI. This head have bigger valves and more flow. Then you need to do some portmatching to use the standard 1.9 GTI manifold with the XU10 head. To get the full advantage of the bigger valved head, you need a new camshat. The most important about the camshaft is a high lift. I would definitly choose atleast a mild racing cam or else you can wind up with no benifit from the bigger valved head over the standard. Dont bother buying any kind of 4-2-1 or 4-1 racing exhaust manifolds - the standard is very good. But you could install a 2" exhaust system from the manifold and backwards though. And a K&N performance filter is almost mandatory, since the standard 1.9 gti filter can really limit the gains above 130 hp.

 

If you do this correctly and put a little time in to it, you should very much be able to pull around 150 hp for a very cheap price. You can find the XU10 head cheap at almost any scrapyard or similar. And just buy a used camshaft if you want since new can be quite expensive.

[Saveit 0]

EDITED

Edited December 30, 2008 by Saveit

[Guest Dobins]

Thanks for that have to say u guys are probably the most helpful ive ever met on a forum. Appreciate all your help i would be happy with 150 bhp as it will be fully stripped out so should way next to nothing. Nearly bought a corsa with an xe but couldnt stand the chav look and ive always liked the old school 205 gti. I did hve a mk3 gsi running full jenvey throttle bodies how can i post a pic as this was a great car which didnt make it to the track

[Saveit 0]

Nothing like a good old 205. And the handling of a 205 gti is so much superior compared to other cars from that time.

 

When doing this conversion, remember to get the XU10 head skimmed otherwise you will have too low compression which will result in low power. Be sure to check whether the head has been skimmed before. If it hasnt, then i would recommend skimming about 1.5mm off depending on how healthy your engine is.

[weejimmy 1]

my old track car was a mi and never once had any surge issues, and know of at least 8 others in same boat, so dont discard the idea totaly.

pluss it means you start with 160ish bhp instead of finish up with.

im not saying oil surge dosent happen just ive never seen it personaly in "real life".

mayby gti-6 etc is beter.

or a baffled sum and high oil level.

 

anyway, at track days, any 8v ive seen is at the back of the track on its own, not much fun.

but mi's sit with most things,

 

just my recomendation not to waste money tunning the 8v then wanting more and going 16v but to go with 16v to start with.

 

unless you go 406 8v turbo.

 

just have a search about the forum and make up your own mind, but i know what i would do.

[Guest dionbullock]

Very interesting thread this! im more or less in the same boat as dobins, just bought my 205, like him, cage, suspension and brakes were already on the car, so i concentrated on giving the car a good service, belt, water pump, plugs, leads etc etc. It made a world of difference just giving the car a service and new lugs etc! maybe try that first??

 

hopefully i should have my car 100% by mid january, and because anglesey circuit is 10 mins down the road, ill be taking it there on the 28th, should be fun!

 

good luck with the car mate!

[Guest Dobins]

Right guys really fancy going down the mi16 route, what is needed to make it reliable on the track as ive heard alot about oil surges and dont want to be blowing engines all the time. I will prob fully rebuild the mi16 before i fit it.

[veloce200 3]

anyway, at track days, any 8v ive seen is at the back of the track on its own, not much fun.

but mi's sit with most things,

 

just my recomendation not to waste money tunning the 8v then wanting more and going 16v but to go with 16v to start with.

This implies you gain more from power than handling. Not true.perhaps the 8vs had 120hp and fairly std and mi16s more specced with better drivers as I know of many an example of even 280hp mi16s being slower than 170hp 8v, its driver driver driver chassis power. Eg a 125 gearbox kart with just 200hp per ton is asfast as most supercars round brands hatch!

[Saveit 0]

I fully agree with veloce

[Guest Dobins]

Im lost just want a reliable track car which wont be lost on the track i dont expect it to be the quickest but just want something fun and reliable and most of all driveable. If i wanted speed i would have built a nova or corsa with a c20 let but it just doesnt handle or drive well and is unreliable. Will carbs, cams, a bit of head, exhaust and filter get me 150-160 bhp on an 8v

 

cheers

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

Getting decent power out of an 8v is not easy. Personally if i was building a track car i would ditch the 8v, seems pointless now that there are so many cheap gti-6's and xsara vts's about. I'd just by one, use the engine and brakes and sell the rest. Would prob only end up costing a few hundred quid. Least that way you would have a good reliable engine with half decent management which will be pretty rapid out the box and not have the surge issues like the mi16.

 

But as mentioned worth while doing a search into suspension options as this will severely affect your performance even if you do stay 8v.

[veloce200 3]

GTI6 does seem like a very good option there are loads of people on here with the knowledge to help . i saw a nova at brands recently that was faster than any other car on track... anything can be made to handle (i mean formula v single seater use vw beetle trailing arms !!). it does of course depend which circuits you do as well.

 

i think a lot of people overegg the challenge of getting power out of 8v it's not that hard. big induction, massive cam, stacks of compression. it's not far removed from most 2v lumps. For trackdays power kind of makes sense as it's not like you can overtake into a corner on the brakes ! However witness all the high power cars on track that won't get out the way for a better handling but less powerful car. personally i find trackdays now full of people who spend mega bucks on their cars so they are "quicker" it doesn't seem that the focus is on fun as much. more willy and wallet waving. for this reason i've bought a kart for weekend fun. spent and hour in it the other weekend - cost £5 + £5 fuel. 0-60 3.5 seconds and 2.5 g round bends... it cost £950....

[projectpug 0]

I agree for a fun trackday car a well running 8v coupled to some good chassis mods will be fast and fun around most circuits. I have done iro 30 days in a standard engined 205 bar weber 45's and many a people including mi16 drivers have come over and said how fast it was. A combination of suspension,brakes,tyres and circuit knowledge will make you quicker than going for POWER straight away.

 

Tuning the 8v can be worth it with the right parts but will never be as economical as the mentioned 16v engines if headline power/torque is what you want. I wanted to go mi16 but so many issues surrounding surge that put me off.

[Spiky 37]

i know i have changed my engine, buit thats std,

 

i have consentrated on weight, handling and braking