106 Xsi Bottom End, 1.4 Xs Head

[Guest gr8grumble]

hello everyone...

I can pick up a whole 1-6 xsi, with no mot for a 150quid, a mate wants the shell for a track car, and says if i use the bottom end, for the high compression pistons on my skimmed, ported and cammed 205xs head... in my 1.4 i will feel a big increase in power! Is this true?

 

I use newman phase 3 cams, lumpy as hell,.. so if i was to use the high compression bottom end off a xsi, and my head with motorbike carbs,... would it be money well spent, and would it be a fast 1.4 8v?

 

 

just like to know if it will be worth it as im really interested....

 

 

 

Thanks alot in advance,..

 

 

Graham

[burr_2000 1]

it would not be a 1400cc but a 1600cc. You would have compression issues even if it was a 1400 xsi. Why dont you just use the 106 xsi engine complete, i know you have spent a lot of money on your xs head (same mistake i made) but xsi head is far superior, cap the injectors and use your bike carbs.

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

it would not be a 1400cc but a 1600cc. You would have compression issues even if it was a 1400 xsi. Why dont you just use the 106 xsi engine complete, i know you have spent a lot of money on your xs head (same mistake i made) but xsi head is far superior, cap the injectors and use your bike carbs.

 

could the xs cams be used in the xsi head?

[welshpug 1,661]

just use the whole engine including the injection, it'll be 100 bhp whether its the 1400 or 1600 version.

[AdamP 0]

Am I right in thinking 1.6XSi = VTR engine?

 

If so, it has been done a few times in AX GTs with completely standard GT/XS heads / carbs etc and they make between 100 and 110bhp after a setup. I get the impression that past this the TU3S head starts to limit the power and you really want to keep the TU5 head. If you're going for bike carbs and you dont already have the manifold you might as well stick with the whole 1.6 engine.

 

Might need to watch out for valve clearances if you're using a lumpy cam and high comp pistons.....

[RossD 44]

Nope, the XSi engine is a TU5J2 approx 103bhp, the VTR engine is a TU5JP, 90bhp. The 5J2 has different pistons (slightly higher compression) and a different cam

[burr_2000 1]

could the xs cams be used in the xsi head?

 

 

No.

 

Graham i am a fan of carbs love the sound of them but i have a track car, if you are using car everyday prob be best grabbing the wires from donor car and making use of the injection. I would use the whole xsi engine personally a lot of hassle fitting xs head, which honestly is a backwards step if you are wanting more power. So for Budget use xsi with injection but for ease and noticability stick your carbs on and cap of injectors ports (hate wiring)

[MikeM 5]

Having read the above posts I am now tempted to fit an xsi engine to my xs. However, does the xsi engine use distributorless (sp?) ignition? If they do, is there anyway of fitting the distrubutor off the xs engine, and run it off bikecarbs or similar? I ask this as I am not a fan of injection regardless of the fact it may be more economical or easier to set up

cheers

[Sandy 191]

Use the distributor end housing etc, it bolts straight on. The fuel pump won't work off the cam any more, that's all.

[Guest gr8grumble]

thanks for all the replies so far, its bin great..

 

 

its a 1400 xsi engine..

 

if i was to do a straight swap.. to aviod changing the loom.. having a ecu etc,.. do i bolt the carbs on, plug the injector holes, and thats it?

 

or is it alot harder than that?

 

 

and about my cams.... will i not be able to run them? as they are really lumpy.. and wht about valve clearances.???

 

 

graham,,..

[Sandy 191]

You can't use the XS cam in an XSI head. The XSI cam is pretty good as it comes though. You can plug the injector holes with 14mm core plugs. Do something reversible like that in case you want to go over to TB injection later, which often happens.

[Guest gr8grumble]

You can't use the XS cam in an XSI head. The XSI cam is pretty good as it comes though. You can plug the injector holes with 14mm core plugs. Do something reversible like that in case you want to go over to TB injection later, which often happens.

 

 

 

 

using this method, and buying bike carbs.. do you think i will feel a greater increase in power and speed?

yet still knowing its only a 1360cc

 

im quite happy running a 1.4 but would like know.. that i have maximised the output of that engine..

 

so bike carbs on the xsi engine to allow me to run the engine without a new wiring loom etc yeah?

 

 

before this engine goes in... im gettin all new valve stem oil seals... gaskets.. the lot, so fingers crossed itll be running like new!

 

 

 

and one other question... with bike carbs.. where can i buy the inlet to fit a xsi, and how hard are they to tune? gettin them fueling correctly... etc??

 

 

thanks alot lads

 

gray..

[burr_2000 1]

The xsi engine is a hardy engine as being iron block takes heat better and a gain of 15 hp on a standard xs. The disadvantage is that 20 kg heavier engine in a place where you dont want weight. You could try bogg bros for a manifold or sandy. yeah using the original 205 dizzy etc you wont need to change loom. to set up carbs properly best to have access to rolling road. ps remember to order the correct Head Gasket for a 106 xsi.

[Guest gr8grumble]

The xsi engine is a hardy engine as being iron block takes heat better and a gain of 15 hp on a standard xs. The disadvantage is that 20 kg heavier engine in a place where you dont want weight. You could try bogg bros for a manifold or sandy. yeah using the original 205 dizzy etc you wont need to change loom. to set up carbs properly best to have access to rolling road. ps remember to order the correct Head Gasket for a 106 xsi.

 

 

 

lol, cheers mate.. i wont forget that.

 

is 20kg extra weight alot? and would the car now handle worse? slide out..?

 

or will a barely feel that.

 

graham

[swordfish210 20]

The bike carbs arn't too had to set up really. Start off by pulling them apart and cleaning everything. When they're apart you can set the float levels up. Once they're on the car you'll need to balance them and set the idle speed. Once thats done you can the work ont he jetting, it's best to have a good lambda sensor in at this point so you can moniter the reading. Then you can do the jetting, the way i did mine was to take the car for a drive with the lambda sensor in, and take it up through the rev range in 2nd and 3rd whilst taking a lambda reading. Then remove the main jet and drill it out 0.1mm at a time, i started with a 170 main jet and ended up with a 200. At this point i had the car running rich at the bottom end and bang on at the top end. So i then got some adjustable needles and moved the circlip so that it was on the top rung. This meant that the needle will sit further in the jet on low throttle, leaning out the mixture.

[Guest gr8grumble]

The bike carbs arn't too had to set up really. Start off by pulling them apart and cleaning everything. When they're apart you can set the float levels up. Once they're on the car you'll need to balance them and set the idle speed. Once thats done you can the work ont he jetting, it's best to have a good lambda sensor in at this point so you can moniter the reading. Then you can do the jetting, the way i did mine was to take the car for a drive with the lambda sensor in, and take it up through the rev range in 2nd and 3rd whilst taking a lambda reading. Then remove the main jet and drill it out 0.1mm at a time, i started with a 170 main jet and ended up with a 200. At this point i had the car running rich at the bottom end and bang on at the top end. So i then got some adjustable needles and moved the circlip so that it was on the top rung. This meant that the needle will sit further in the jet on low throttle, leaning out the mixture.

 

 

swordfish, you live 15minutes away from me,... would you be interested in setting it up for me?

 

my car is overfueling like a mother... at the moment! thats why im doing this change,

 

but if your interested in making a few quid... i would be happy to pay you for a couple of hours work....

 

 

wht do you think?

 

 

graham

[Guest gr8grumble]

just an update....

im aas low as a man can be

 

 

my 205 blew up today.. there was oil everywhere.. and theres no engine compression at all,.

 

 

im guessing the bottem is shagged! :'(

 

 

i now have a few options..

 

try the xsi bottom end,.. on my head, which like people have said wont work,

 

or the complete xsi engine.. standard just to tie me over... but i still dont know how i will fuel it??

 

 

 

basically im as low as a 205 owner can be!

 

 

all of your suggestions is wellcome!

 

 

thanks...

 

 

graham

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

its s*it right now but look on the bright side, you got a perfect opportunity to use the xsi engine now! stick the carbs on and get the fueling set up properly save melting another engine

[All Praise The GTI 3]

hi sorry to hear that mate,but as said above now you may aswell use the whole xsi lump. ive had a 106 1.4xsi and it was alright,ive got a 1.6 version in my garage ive been meaning to sell or break for parts and sell. the 1.6 version is actually very quick for what they are,it really surprised my when i drove it 1st time,very revvy engines. also if you use the whole xsi lump if i break the one ive got its got a 4branch manifold on it if your interested

[burr_2000 1]

Sorry to hear about that. Now you just use your 1.4 xsi engine, Sword fish gave you advice on how to set up the bike carbs but remeber you would have to fit the 106 xsi exhaust manifold to (to use the lambda sensor) which will have to be modified to fit over the subframe.

[drmo 5]

Like I said before. XSi head wont fit XS head becouse of different cam bearing sizes. It does't have a excentrical thing on cam so can't drive mechanical fuel pump.

1.4 Xsi head will fit to xs bottom end and xs head will fit on 1.4 xsi bottom end. You can also use the same headgasket (like I did) but you have to make bigger oil or watter holes in it (i cant remember right now which ones).

[MikeM 5]

So is a 1.4xsi head on an xs bottom end a worthwhile swap? I presume that I would have to use an electric fuel pump in the equation? Where would be the best place to locate one within the engine bay? Does the xs inlet manifold fit onto the xsi head, or would bike carbs be a better option?

Sorry for all the questions, just want to know whats best and how to go about it before I spend my money.

cheers

sorry for hi-jacking your thread Graham!

[Guest gr8grumble]

alrite lads...

 

im gonna whip some pictures up soon of my old 205 engine...

 

i pulled the first rubber thing of the spark plug to check if it was a small or stupid thing that had happened to my engine, when i removed my spark plug, some thing had hit it so hard it cracked the spark plug!

 

 

so i removed the head, to find out a valve had dropped, and smashed a hole in 1st piston!

 

so my hole engine is shagged! all the head is mangled, and the bottom end is nakerd, i have a massive hole in my piston, which went through the piston, and damaged wht was underneath it...

the conrod i think?.. im quite a n00b.

 

so im going to start again again lol.

 

so if anyone wants so uprated valve springs, and a phase 3 new cam, only done 3k miles..

 

pm me..

 

sorry if i just advertised in the wrong topic,

 

 

graham...

[drmo 5]

So is a 1.4xsi head on an xs bottom end a worthwhile swap? I presume that I would have to use an electric fuel pump in the equation? Where would be the best place to locate one within the engine bay? Does the xs inlet manifold fit onto the xsi head, or would bike carbs be a better option?

Sorry for all the questions, just want to know whats best and how to go about it before I spend my money.

cheers

sorry for hi-jacking your thread Graham!

In my opinion yes, but Sandy309 says that the CR will drop to 8.5:1 with xsi head on xs bottom, becouse of bigger chamber. I respect his opinion and knowledge, but I think that the chambers on both heads are almoast the same cc. Just bigger bore on xsi head.

 

Inlet manifold will not fit.

 

tu3s head:

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_image...9/3062519_4.jpg

tu5 head:

http://drmo.moj-album.com/slike/2103972/2K...WuiuSfMYQ.v.jpg

and the difference:

http://drmo.moj-album.com/slike/2103972/Ss...CLw9f5yyQ.v.jpg

[Sandy 191]

There's approximately 5cc between them though! You'll notice the XS pistons are dished slightly and don't reach the top of the bore, conversely the XSi pistons top the bore and have ~3cc dome.