Gti6 Manifold Angle

[djinuk 2]

i just got myself this

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=120348441443

 

engine crane £130 new deliverd

[Rom 0]

Not more bulkhead vs reangling talk

 

As said, both ways work. Both ways have thier followers and thier non believers. Both methods have been around for years, and are proven

It comes down to what you have, and are capable of doing.

I think the only thing most of us will agree on, is tilting the engine is bad !

[M@tt 77]

I think the only thing most of us will agree on, is tilting the engine is bad !

 

no offence but that's crap

 

have you got anyone else apart from the all knowing oracle maxi whose tilted theirs and had any problems?

[Spiky 37]

exactly,

 

even flat out on track a tilted engine dont have issues

[Peetypug 5]

well

hasn't this topic spiralled out of control a little in places

i've been messing round mine for 2 or 3 hours yesterday and today

 

i've decided to use the extended mount

 

as maxi has said the best way, is to put it in and take it out a few times

 

but, i'm lazy and for now i'm sticking with the longer lower fork method

 

if it trashes some drive shafts i'll sort it with either a sorted manifold or cut the bulkhead (its no hardship to me really as its not my everyday car)

 

 

but we should all agree to disagree

[Spiky 37]

i thought it was a good topic, (well post mod)

 

no one is disagreeing, but all giving good input, this is how it should be

 

as people say, more than one way to skin a car, same as there is to put an engine in car

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

i thought it was a good topic, (well post mod)

 

no one is disagreeing, but all giving good input, this is how it should be

 

EXACTLY!! This is a good discussion/debate; as long as personal comments are left out (M@tt!!).

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

no offence but that's crap

 

have you got anyone else apart from the all knowing oracle maxi whose tilted theirs and had any problems?

 

 

Whats your problem? Ive never ever claimed to know everything, I only post when I know something first hand and have done it myself. Im not an oracle as you put it, so why have a go? In fact ive noticed a few times recently you attacking me personally Matt when I have never ever done anything to you. I dont come across well online, maybe I should meet you in real life and you can make your judgements then.

 

Maxi

Edited December 22, 2008 by maxi

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I for one am getting pretty damn sick of logging in to find multiple "Repot to moderator" pm's all for the same topic, mainly involving the same one or two people.

 

While this topic is gathering differing opinions on how the GTi-6 engine should be fitted, everyone has their own methods & can't 100% claim that another persons way of doing things is wrong just because they have done it a different way & it works fine for them.

 

Post your way of doing things so the OP can decide what method they want to use but don't reply criticising another persons method just because its not yours.

 

There will never be a right way because this engine wasn't fitted to the 205 from the factory, just like the Mi16 you have a choice, as close to the factory fit as possible with standard mounts & engine angles with modifiing either the exhaust manifold or bodyshell properly to gain clearance & fit or using parts from all over & changing things to make it easier to fit it as you see fit.

 

Your doing the work, its your car so if you are happy that its safe when its finished & it works its your choice.

 

My personal method is to use as many original fit parts from the donor car as I need, modifying them minimally when required so at least if something breaks I know what I need & how easy its going to be to get hold of that part.

 

Saying that a tilting engine to gain clearance is crap is pointless because ever since a 16v engine was first fitted to a 205 its been a known thing that it does make a difference. As minor as it seems changing the angle moves the oil level around the pick up so under extreme circumstance oil starvation can be caused sooner.

 

In the same vain, everyone drives their car differently & no two identical cars with two different drivers will wear the same.

 

Lets keep it friendly or this topic will be closed. We are already discussing various of the poster's on here between the admin because some of them have caused quite a bit of disconscent recently & something will be getting done about it.

 

Graham.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

There is another method which hasn't been mentioned yet, and Magic has proven works. In fact it has been mentioned on here before.

 

This is the method of lowering the engine slightly by using an RS2000 or similar offside engine mount rubber, in conjunction with lengthening the gearbox spike mount. I believe Magic also uses a very slightly off-centre lower engine mount. From what I've seen first hand and in Magic's photos, this is as factory as it gets. The exhaust downpipe is dead centre, with ample clearance from a non-altered bulkhead and the gear linkages, AND it eliminates master cylinder clearance issues.

 

Rich

Edited December 23, 2008 by DrSarty

[gti_al 1]

There is another method which hasn't been mentioned yet, and Magic has proven works. In fact it has been mentioned on here before.

 

This is the method of lowering the engine slightly by using an RS2000 or similar offside engine mount rubber, in conjunction with lengthening the gearbox spike mount. I believe Magic also uses a very slightly off-centre lower engine mount. From what I've seen first hand and in Magic's photos, this is as factory as it gets. The exhaust downpipe is dead centre, with ample clearance from a non-altered bulkhead and the gear linkages, AND it eliminates master cylinder clearance issues.

 

Rich

 

I'm using them. I actually have a spare lower gearbox stud lying around somewhere...

 

The only issue is that they lower things too far, so introduce issues with cv boots hitting driveshafts. I have spaced it up a bit, and i think it is the easiest solution to master cylinder clearance problems.

[welshpug 1,657]

I've seen pictures of the mod that DrS describes on the Aussiefrogs forum, and apart from one slight issue with the CV's being a bit close to the subframe (not a concern at all it seems so far, O.E boots are very slim) it looks very good.

Edited December 23, 2008 by welshpug

[Spiky 37]

the rs2000 mount was a good fine ( pat on back..pmsl) my only issue with it, was the rubber is not as hard as the BBM ones so you have to make sure there was no forward back movement, and you really need a 3 bush on the drivers side wing to stop sideways movement.

 

another plus was the ability to have the engine at whatever height you wanted as it was dependant on the washers used, so you could mount the engine"just" below the bulkhead and MC.

 

i took mine off as i thought it was causing a knock, little did i know it was my suspension that was causing the knock.

 

you can get uprated rs2000 mounts, which have more solid rubber in the middle

[Fox 3]

How much lower does the RS2000 mount drop the engine?

 

My only worry would be catching the sump, although that wouldn't be an issue in your case on a track car!

Edited December 23, 2008 by Fox

[Spiky 37]

the oe bush is about 67mm thick and the RS2000 is 50mm thick

 

Both are going from memory,

 

which means you can have the engine anywhere between 50 and 67 higher or lower

[Alastairh 47]

Personally,

 

I would re angle your manifold. Just think back 4 years ago to the prime years of Mi conversions, where every forum member was doing them over a weekend. General forum thoughts that bashing your bulkhead was the worse thing going. I still would agree with that having seen an ex Pug Perfomance car which me and my mate gladly took off the road and stripped it for its parts as it was a rotten death trap because of this mod.

 

Next up, tilting the engine was also known as being a bodge, because of drive shaft straining and increasing the chance of oil surge. 6 lumps aren't unheard of spinning shells, so why increase the chance of this happening, and potentially kill someone on a track behind you and cost you a fortune whilst nervously standing by the patch of oil at the ring for the rest of the day. Just ask Garry...

 

As long as the welding on the manifold is spot on and then there shouldn't be a problem. Isn't it about time a company made up some re angling plates for the 205 GTI6 conversions, as a simple bolt on?

 

Al

[welshpug 1,657]

Isn't it about time a company made up some re angling plates for the 205 GTI6 conversions, as a simple bolt on?

 

 

I know PeterT has done one to fit the manifold to an Mi16 head, not sure if he as yet does one for just re-angling the gti6 manifold on a gti6 head,

 

I thought I had read that QEP were going to do one? maybe I'm dreaming that one, but they certainly do the Mi ones, seeing as the studs are the same as the XU10 Mi16 it should take much work to adapt them to the gti6 installation.

[leon 1.9 0]

Anyone got a technical drawing with dimensions of the Gti6 manifold and an estimate of the amount it needs reangling on average? Lazy I know but worth asking

[gti_al 1]

the rs2000 mount was a good fine ( pat on back..pmsl) my only issue with it, was the rubber is not as hard as the BBM ones so you have to make sure there was no forward back movement, and you really need a 3 bush on the drivers side wing to stop sideways movement.

 

another plus was the ability to have the engine at whatever height you wanted as it was dependant on the washers used, so you could mount the engine"just" below the bulkhead and MC.

 

i took mine off as i thought it was causing a knock, little did i know it was my suspension that was causing the knock.

 

you can get uprated rs2000 mounts, which have more solid rubber in the middle

 

Magic has been using lower top mounts for ages, and there have been plenty of posts about it

 

He makes solid ones, and they are really cheap. I think his conversions are closest to oem anyway. Working for peugeot he uses lots of oe parts, and i think it is probably worth looking at some of his conversion threads to get ideas. He spends lots of time on dynos too, so knows what actually works. To do it properly, you need an offset lower mount and extended gearbox stud though.

 

I don't want to weigh into the debate, but there is no arguing with the fact it is aesthetically... less than pleasing. I know that doesn't matter to everyone, but it is enough to rule it out for plenty

Edited December 24, 2008 by gti_al

[Spiky 37]

Magic has been using lower top mounts for ages, and there have been plenty of posts about it

 

He makes solid ones, and they are really cheap. I think his conversions are closest to oem anyway. Working for peugeot he uses lots of oe parts, and i think it is probably worth looking at some of his conversion threads to get ideas. He spends lots of time on dynos too, so knows what actually works. To do it properly, you need an offset lower mount and extended gearbox stud though.

 

I don't want to weigh into the debate, but there is no arguing with the fact it is aesthetically... less than pleasing. I know that doesn't matter to everyone, but it is enough to rule it out for plenty

 

 

i've seen magic's stuff

 

it looks very good

 

but I run my car at std OE position, so i use BBM mounts now

[jtek 0]

I imagine magic's method would be of benefit of those hunting out a lower C of G as well!, not by much though

[Sam 4]

mine was extended 7mm, did 10 track days inc 1250 mile drive to the ring

 

still fine

 

my engine is now in OE position, as i have done my bulkhead and braking as above

 

They are CV (constant velocity) joints after all and designed to work at varying angles. I'd say driving style has more effect on the life of driveshafts.

[hodgy 0]

 

all i wanted to know was what angle to re weld my manifold at

[gti_al 1]

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showpost....mp;postcount=45

 

I think someone is watching...

[petert 586]

 

all i wanted to know was what angle to re weld my manifold at

 

I'm really not sure. The plates I have done have been to fit GTi6 pipes to an Mi16 head, on an iron block. In this case, 15 degrees. That puts the collector right in the middle of the tunnel. However, if you have a GTi6 head the angle maybe less. If you're handy with a welder, tack it at 10 deg. and do a test fit. My 1.9L Mi16 plates are 6 degrees.