She Won't Crank!

[shalmaneser 26]

Hoping you guys could help me with my problem!

 

Changed the oil this afternoon, and while I was at it had a look at the brown multiplug as i've been getting the 'solenoid click but no start' problem for a while now. Plug seemed OK though, but wrapped it in electrical tape to keep the connection nice and tight nevertheless!

 

so put it all back together (had taken off all induction piping and battery) and tried to fire her up but no joy! Here are the symptoms...

 

Fuel is clearly fine - I can hear the fuel pump humming away and when my head is in the engine bay i can hear and feel it going through the fuel lines. No problems here then.

 

When I turn the key nothing happens at all - other than the fuel pump. No 'click' of the solenoid, no cranking, no nothing.

 

She's been a bit temperamental to start recently - especially today and yesterday she's been doing the solenoid click thing more and more, but obviously now I'm not getting anything.

 

I'm also concerned that the alternator might be on it's way out - the bearings are very noisy indeed so I plan on getting a replacement soonish - could this be contributing? Battery voltage is 12.4 volts - this is about right isn't it?

 

Anyway, I'm off to trawl through the search and the Book of Lies some more, any help is much appreciated as ever!

 

Cheers,

 

Adam.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

My money is on you having disturbed the wiring by the multiplug when you were messing with it. I'd start looking here.

[welshpug 1,657]

on a similar vein to the above, I'd check that you haven't pulled the wire off the starter motor solenoid.

[steve@cornwall 100]

My money is on you having disturbed the wiring by the multiplug when you were messing with it. I'd start looking here.

 

Or you've pulled the wire off the solenoid whilst working on the wiring?

[shalmaneser 26]

Or you've pulled the wire off the solenoid whilst working on the wiring?

 

Yeah guess it could be something like that!

 

Which bit is the solenoid? The cylinder above the starter motor itself - it looks a right PITA to get to, underneath the inlet manifold?

 

Oh well, all part of the fun I guess.

 

Any more suggestions keep 'em coming!

[Goliath 94]

yeh thats the soleniod, easiest way to get to it is to take the grill and radiator off.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Yeah guess it could be something like that!

 

Which bit is the solenoid? The cylinder above the starter motor itself - it looks a right PITA to get to, underneath the inlet manifold?

 

Oh well, all part of the fun I guess.

 

Any more suggestions keep 'em coming!

 

If you don't have PAs, the best route in is to push your hand under the inlet manifold from above the alternator - if PAS ( alternator mounted higher) you'll just have to do if by feel from underneath - ( chances are you're going to bleed a little)

[welshpug 1,657]

shine a torch down from the top through the gap in the inlet manifold and put your left hand under the manifold, can reach it through there easily.

[shalmaneser 26]

yeah I've got PAS - sounds like skinned knuckles time (again)

[welshpug 1,657]

doh!

[GLPoomobile 958]

I reckon you've got a brittle connection on one side (or both sides) of the brown plug, which is probably why you've had the clicking recently (high resistance). By moving the plug to tape it up, you've probably disturbedthe wiring enough to break the connection inside the wire if it's corroded and brittle. Wiggling the wire around might even get the connection back, but ultimately (if this is the cause) you'll need to cut out the corroded bit of wire or replace it altogether.

[shalmaneser 26]

I reckon you've got a brittle connection on one side (or both sides) of the brown plug, which is probably why you've had the clicking recently (high resistance). By moving the plug to tape it up, you've probably disturbedthe wiring enough to break the connection inside the wire if it's corroded and brittle. Wiggling the wire around might even get the connection back, but ultimately (if this is the cause) you'll need to cut out the corroded bit of wire or replace it altogether.

 

Yeah that's sounding more and more likely the longer I think about it. I've got plenty of soldering experience from my previous job, but unfortunately no tools...might be some early Xmas presents in store for me! Just trying to decide whether to make crimp connectors or just solder the buggers together now.

[shalmaneser 26]

soldered all the connections back together in the brown multiplug, took a few pics which I'll wack up here to hopefully give someone a bit of a helping hand.

 

She fired up again absolutely fine, but the clicking thing still happens every now and again - think it might be worth checking the earths, if not then I'll get a small case starter motor from a 306 and try that. Really don't fancy trying to fit it though, looks a PITA!

 

Running really nicely with the new oil, bloody should do at £30 for 4 litres...

[dcc 855]

the clicking is a common problem with the starters, with stickey solenoids.

 

You need to sweet talk a woman at your local GSF/motor factors. Trade prices are great, £14 for 5ltrs of oil. (down from £28 )

[shalmaneser 26]

Right, for anybody who's interested...I personally always find it helps to have a few pics of the job before i do it...

 

The Brown plug bodge Repair

 

Here she is, the bitch...As you can see i took off all of the induction piping and removed the battery and some of the battery tray - it helps to have as much space as possible.

 

 

 

Number '5' wire is the starter solenoid wire. This will be the one that's been buggering you about stopping you starting your car. Note that it's slightly thicker than the other wires.

 

 

Another thing to take note of here is that the number '2' wire goes in orange and comes out purple. I cut, soldered and heat shrunk one wire at a time, so i couldn't get confused (it happens very easily), but if your a bit clipper happy and just merrily hack off the plug without looking properly then you could end up scratching your head over this one!

 

 

I chose to solder the wires together; mainly cos I've done tons of soldering in the past, but also because it's a more reliable joint than crimping, especially with these old wires. I also don't expect to have to take the loom out of the car until i eventually get round to dropping a 16V engine in the car, by which point the existing wiring will be useless anyway.

 

The technique with soldering is relatively simple. Make sure that your wire is as clean as you can get it - this will involve trimming it back as much as you can to get to good copper. be careful not to overtrim, though otherwise you'll end up with problems! because most of these cars are getting on for twenty odd years old by now, you won't be able to get to mint condition copper, so just do the best you can.

 

 

Once you've got down to semi decent wire, coat it in good quality flux. I bought mine from screwfix, its just generic plumbers flux but seemed to do the job OK. Trying to solder (especially to the slightly corroded wires you'll find under the bonnet) without flux really is an absolute nightmare, you'll end up with joints so crap you might as well not bother. its only £3 or so for flux, so get involved.

 

 

Once you're fluxed up, it's time to 'tin' the wires. this basically involves heating up the wire and introducing the solder. You want the solder to flow into the wire, forming a good solid connection with all the little strands. The trick with soldering is to get the wires hot enough to melt the solder, not to do as many novices do and melt the solder on the soldering iron tip and then touch it against the wire. However this can sometimes be tricky in confined spaces, so just do the best you can.

 

 

Once both ends are tinned, slap on some more flux and melt the two ends together. You may need a little additional solder for this, but probably not much.

 

 

Now that the wire is connected, slide over the shrink wrap (you did remember to slip it onto the wire before you soldered it together, didn't you?!). Then use a heat gun to shrink it all down and make it looks pretty (and watertight!)

 

 

And this is why you've been getting funny resistances through good old brown; it's corroded to buggery.

 

 

Anywho, after I'd done all that its worth testing the connections. Hook up the battery and AFM but disconnect the spark plugs - we don't want the engine to actually start without metered air (although maybe its fine, I'm sure someone can enlighten me; I just didn't want to take the risk). She won't fire up but she should turn over.

 

Assuming that all went well, I taped the whole lot up with electrical tape to keep it nice and neat and out of harms way, and reassembled the car.

 

She's running beautifully now, although she's done the old 'solenoid click' thing once since I've soldered her up. I might end up replacing the starter motor with a newer small case one from a 306 or something, but for the sake of £2 (I'd guess) worth of materials (assuming you have the tools!) then this fix is worth doing IMO just for the peace of mind.

 

Anyway, hope this has been of use to someone!

[omega 82]

hi it was usefull to me as ive heard about this brown plug but never had any proplems so far and didnt even no where it was,so photos usefull never done any soldering so was very intrested.thanks

[Mac210882 0]

Great write up and pictures

 

It's always really useful when someone does a step by step guide like this with pictures, it helps the retards like me

[dicky20014 4]

I agree! I having been having problems the last few days and now have located this plug with loose wires on it! You dont know what the brown and white wires do by any chance? So may have a go at this soldering lark just to eliminate the possibility that it is this, cheers

Edited December 30, 2008 by dicky20014

[shalmaneser 26]

 

Pinched from another post - not my work!

Edited December 30, 2008 by shalmaneser

[dicky20014 4]

Cheers shalmaneser