1.6 With A 1.9 Crank

[matty_gti 20]

Hi all,

 

Well ive finaly got round to fiddling with the engine that came out of my crashed 1.6 and when checking the bearings etc I thought that people have turned there 1.6's to 1.9's by changing the crank, injectors, AFM etc but couldnt find any posts after a while of searching. Just wondering if its worth it as ive got the 1.9 crank spare while its apart?, and with the std 1.6 pistons it would increase the cr??.

 

Thanks.

[welshpug 1,657]

it'll only work if you have the 1.9 rods as well.

[matty_gti 20]

it'll only work if you have the 1.9 rods as well.

 

O rite ok, would there be any benefit of using a 1.9 crank while keeping the 1.6 pistons and rods?. I dont really want to take the head off as I only rebuilt it 10K miles ago.

 

Thanks

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

The 1.6 rods won't fit the 1.9 crank, different sized big ends.

 

Graham.

[mattbenselin 0]

As Welshpug said you will need to have 1.9 spec crank and rods as the 1.6 rods will not fit on the 1.9 crank. They will though fit the pistons. You will get longer stroke which increases the displacement but to get it all to work properly you need to change the ECU, injectors, AFM, dizzy etc to 1.9 items.

You may also need the sump spacer found only on the 1.9s, as I think this gives the extra clearance in the sump for the extended stroke.

[matty_gti 20]

Ok cheers guys, looks like ill just be getting new bearings then!.

Edited December 21, 2008 by matty_gti

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

You may also need the sump spacer found only on the 1.9s, as I think this gives the extra clearance in the sump for the extended stroke.

The 1.6 sump is deeper than the 1.9 & its not just a spacer but a block stiffener as well.

 

It should be fine without the stiffener plate & a 1.6 sump, I ran my 1.9 track car like this for a year or two before swapping to an Mi16 alloy sump (also without the stiffener) then fitting the stiffener & 1.9 sump.

 

Graham.

[Baz 421]

It'll also be fine, although given not ideal, running on it's original management. (ECU, AFM, Injectors, etc)

[matty_gti 20]

By how much is the 1.6 sump deeper than 1.9 then?, volume wise?.

 

And i don't supose you can remove and replace pictons from the bottom of the liner rather than the top?.

 

Thanks.

Edited December 22, 2008 by matty_gti

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

With the stiffener plate fitted the 1.6 & 1.9 sumps are effectively the same depth same capacity.

 

You can't swap the pistons & liners from underneath iirc because the main bearing caps are in the way.

 

Graham.

[dcc 855]

The liners wont fit out the bottom at all, however, think my pistons came through the bottom with no problems (crank removed), they might have come out with the liners though, can't remember now!

[matty_gti 20]

I know the liners cant be removed from the bottom because of the way they are designed.

 

With the crank removed could I remove the pistons from underneath, swap the rings over to a set of 1.9 pistons and then fit these back in with the help of p.ring compressors?, or remove the pistons from underneath and replace the rods for 1.9 items retaining the 1.6 pistons and put in a 1.9 crank?.

 

Just trying to steer away from taking off the head, only been on the block for 10k.

 

Thanks.

Edited December 23, 2008 by matty_gti

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I've attached a picture of an Mi16 block from underneath, there are no liners fitted & the only difference is the under piston oilspray bars but as I'm sure you can see, it would be impossible to get a piston out from underneath because there isn't enough space between the bearings.

 

Even if you could the piston ring compressor wouldn't clear the main bearing halfs in the block so there would be a gap between the end of that & the liner which would allow the rings to open & stop them sliding into the liner bore.

 

Graham.

[matty_gti 20]

Ok thanks pugtorque, a picture tells a thousand words!

[Cameron 16]

Why bother? Surely its easier and cheaper to just get rid of the 1.6 and use a 1.9 engine.

[MerlinGTI 3]

As I understand it after reading another thread about using a mixture of 1.9/1.6 engine parts, the 1.6 pistions will give you a huge CR in what will basically be a 1.9 engine after you have changed the crank and rods.

 

So high your encounter problems if using std management and pump fuel.

[Cameron 16]

Run it on Diesel?

[DamirGTI 342]

98 RON petrol and re-curved dizzy will do the trick

 

Damir

[matty_gti 20]

98 RON petrol and re-curved dizzy will do the trick

 

Damir

 

Your rite, it doesnt raise the comp so much that its incurable by adjusting the dizzy.

[DamirGTI 342]

Yes but , to be more precise , not by simply turning the dizzy like when you wish to advance or retard the timing you'll need to change the dizzy springs for stiffer ones and re-tense them in order to change the actual dizzy advance curve/settings , afterwards you need to do basics - adjust the dizzy by turning it in either direction to set up the best timing angle .. and unplug the pipe from the vacuum advance capsule

 

I've tried to run my 11.1 CR engine first on std. unmodified 1.9 dizzy but i had to retard the timing so much because of severe detonations/pinking low down and on this settings with the std. 1.9 dizzy the engine didn't want to go much faster than when was standard afterwards i fitted re-curved dizzy , adjusted the timing (by ear , on the road , unplugged the vacuum capsule pipe started advancing little at a time with test drive in between the settings until the engine started to detonate/pink low down in 4-th 5-th , backed off a little bit and fixed the dizzy on this position ..) and it was OMG an huge increase in power/torque and country lanes blur past much faster than before , been spinning around all day long like a clown on ecstasy

 

 

 

 

Anyway no need to bother yourself with this dizzy spring adjusting stuff , these lads will sort that job for you (for 20.00 quid) : http://www.h-h-ignitionsolutions.co.uk/

..afterwards , as said , you'll just need to do basics – pick desired fuel type/octane rating which you'll be using and adjust the timing angle ..

 

Damir

Edited December 25, 2008 by DamirGTI

[matty_gti 20]

And failing that I supose you could skim the pistons down a bit but then that kind of defeats the object

[welshpug 1,657]

Depending on how much clearance there is this would be the ideal time to drop in a nice cam

 

Though if its on standard AFM I would leave it, different story if you upgraded to MP3.1...

[matty_gti 20]

Depending on how much clearance there is this would be the ideal time to drop in a nice cam

 

Though if its on standard AFM I would leave it, different story if you upgraded to MP3.1...

 

is that Mi managment?

[DamirGTI 342]

Well it's not ideal , this re-curved dizzy ignition system for 11.1 CR engine , but it's good enough for starter by all means mappable ignition will be the best option cos you'll be able to squeeze full potential of such modified engine

 

So with good ignition system there will be no need for skimming the pistons , enlarging the combustion chamber/volume or similar stuff - just min. 98 RON octane petrol and good ignition system properly timed will be all what's needed

 

I'll be fitting MS soon cos i want to see how much power/torque i can squeeze from this engine with mappable ignition/fueling , although it's very nice to drive as it is now on this the H&H re-curved dizzy

 

Damir

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

is that Mi managment?

No, MP3.1 is from either a BX GTi, 405 SRi (some not all) the ZX.9i Volcane.

 

It'll make better use of the cam on this system than a standard AFM dizzy etc but ideally a remap is needed to get the full benefit of the cam.

 

Graham.