Renewing Suspension

[2052006 10]

Having spent hours reading previous posts, I have come up with a few options (as well as getting myself thoroughly confused).

 

Basically all dampers/springs are original and it's high time they were replaced. I have a refurbed beam (1.6) with grp A mounts and at the moment is standard height.

 

I intend on doing several track days next year, so whatever set-up I choose it must be capable on track, but the car is a daily driver as a station car used by the wife and I do enjoy the fact that even on tired suspension, it is so much fun on the back roads, so can't be too track biased.

 

I'll be doing the top mounts too and lowering the rear beam to suit...

 

So the options as I see are:

 

SBC phase 1 - can't see a bad review on this, although does appear to be most expensive

 

Bilstein Challenge/group N spec shocks with Eibach springs - too stiff for the road?

 

Bilstein Sprintline (also known as B8 - ??) with Eibach springs - more compliant on road?

 

Considered GAZ but from what I've searched through, they are perhaps not up to the quality of Bilstein stuff.

 

Max budget is around £700 which is what it would cost for the SBC kit (inc top mounts).

 

 

 

Any opinions/experiences welcomed. This will be by far the most amount of cash I've spent on the little Pug so want to get it right!

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

With the Billies on the 205 there is only B4 (Std) or B6 (Sport) then the Group 'N' damper's, you cannot beat the Eibach's springs thou as having changed the SBC springs for these the ride was transformed and stopped the harsh/skippy ride it had before

 

All the old names on the Bilstein unit's have all been changed to the B.. as they go right upto B16 now.

 

I'd go with the B6's up front and the Group N at the back mind it does make the rear solid or use the B6's and expect better comfort.

[2052006 10]

I thought the B8s were the shortened version of the B6 and good to use with lowering springs? This is what it says on the Balance Motorsport site - or is this out of date?

[2052006 10]

I'm confused - so B8s do not exist for the 205, right?

 

Also, are 306 gti6 oe dampers softer or harder than 205 B6s?

[RossD 44]

I've got the GroupN front and rear shocks with the Eibach 7001 springs. It's firm, but certainly not too stiff and we've got some pretty shocking roads around here! The ride certainly seems to smooth out lots with speed.

[Guest Wheres_my_wig]

If you looking for the Blistein "sprintlines" (sport) dont you have to get the springs also as a package? Only reason i say is that i was looking for exactly the same sort of set up and it starts to add up if you getting Eibach springs aswell. From what i have read through Eibach seem to be the Dogs B's. Will be a goer in Feb once i have all my parts together cannny wait. if you can find the Shocks seperate happy days as i will be looking for the same thing! Any one confirm this?

[Batfink 201]

Bilstein don't make springs. Their coilover kits use Eibach or H&R, they used to use ventura springs for their suspension kits but they stopped making these.

The bilstein stuff I sell for the 106, i get custom springs to my spec for them as often the off-the-shelf stuff is a little on the soft side.

 

You will have to get the challenge shocks separately and source some springs.

I'd have thought the Eibach's would be a little soft. To my knowledge they are barely much different to standard.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Batfink

[kyepan 291]

if you like the balance, and perhaps controllable lift off oversteer solid mounts and a stiff front end will only make it understeer.

 

Renew the bushes with standard ones all round, and standard spec dampers.

 

it will be just as fun and still neutral.

 

this might sound like madness and contrary to everyone else, however if you stiffen the front with dampers and springs you should ideally stiffen the rear accordingly.

 

Also the passive rear steer will be neutralised by the solid bushes leading to slightly less flickability.

 

Many modern vehicles offer a form of passive rear steering to counteract normal vehicle tendencies. For example, Subaru used a passive steering system to correct for the rear wheel's tendency to toe-out. On many vehicles, when cornering, the rear wheels tend to steer slightly to the outside of a turn, which can reduce stability. The passive steering system uses the lateral forces generated in a turn (through suspension geometry) and the bushings to correct this tendency and steer the wheels slightly to the inside of the corner. This improves the stability of the car, through the turn. This effect is called compliance understeer and it, or its opposite, is present on all suspensions. Typical methods of achieving compliance understeer are to use a Watt's Link on a live rear axle, or the use of toe control bushings on a twist beam suspension. On an independent rear suspension it is normally achieved by changing the rates of the rubber bushings in the suspension. Some suspensions will always have compliance oversteer due to geometry, such as Hotchkiss live axles or a semi trailing arm IRS.

 

Belying this high level of handling performance is the common MacPherson strut set up at the front, teamed with trailing arm/torsion bar rear suspension. Also at the blunt end is a passive rear-wheel steer system, which works on the principle of bush deflection under cornering loads. This gives improved turn-in and stability without the weight of a fully controlled electro-mechanical system. Anti-roll bars are fitted under the front and back.

 

so getting rid of the bushes will lead to less decent turn in and probably slightly less give on the limit. (stand to be corrected though)

 

don't ruin it, refresh it, i would do that second time round.

 

ps get a strut brace to help keep the tyre contact patch stable.

[McDude 33]

I think stock is great on road, but starts to run out of answers on track.

 

I'm a massive SBC fan (see my signature!) and have the phase II set up. Obviously I can't tell you exactly what the phase I set up feels like because I have an uprated torsion bar/arb/stub axle combo at the rear but the ride is defintely not crashy and is very compliant for B-road blasting. It really is a nice set up for UK roads and has coped with track abuse well.

 

You are right though, it's not the cheapest kit out there.

 

Whatever you go for, group N top mount rubbers are money well spent. Give a really direct feel and aren't harsh.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

B8 don;t exist for the 205, I think that a few of there damper's when run out of stock are not being made, Gone are the day's of Tarmac or Gravel damper's it's only one type now.

It's a very hard choice if a road car as well as getting the best of both is hard, one reason why I have normal car's and a pure race/track car, But going back to all the std Pug stuff is very good and many people have never been in a 205 with this fitted and it is good.

[2052006 10]

Hmm, thanks for the replies/comments. I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and just try a particular set-up.

 

For what it's worth I prefer the car with solid mounts on the rear now. It is a lot more predictable. I'm pretty sure that, for me, it needs lowering slightly as it rolls too much for me as it is (although I doubt tired dampers/springs help here). So I'm thinking Eibach 7001s will do the job as they'll lower the front about 25mm (same as SBC set up afaik). Rear lowered to match.

 

As for shocks, I don't think I should go too hard, but should probably uprate them a bit from standard if I'm lowering the car a little - so either B6s or maybe even some GTI6 shocks front and rear. Hopefully this won't make the front too stiff and the balance will remain similar to now. I just want a bit less roll/bit more body control really.

 

And I'm thinking BBM Fast Road rather than Grp N top mount rubbers.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The B6's don;t really work with lowered springs as they are designed for std ride height, Another option for the front could be the Adjusable Koni's, these are pretty good on the front, just the back's they never got right

[2052006 10]

Ah, ok I shall think again!

[shalmaneser 26]

Have you looked at the Gaz group buy - can't say how much, but they're spanking prices!!!!