Tuning The 12v Xud11

[dirtdog 4]

Trial and error

[weejimmy 1]

hey

my 205 1.8 is still alive so havent bit the bullet as yet. althoe i dont think it can last much longer.

im trying to get my hands on a 2.1 bosh pump, as mine is lucas. i have 1.9 td pumps here but would prefer a 2.1 for reasons said above.

 

good to see somones making progress thoe black mi.

 

i was planing on geting it running in the 406 on bosh and how i want it set up in the 205 so i dont have to have the 205 off road as long.

 

also black mi what car is your 2.1 from?

mine has the heated filter set up same as the 306 etc.

[midnight motorsport 0]

Yes I kinda figured that out

But how do you know if it's right?

 

Yes I kinda figured that out

But how do you know if it's right?

 

hi, the proper way to check the timing is to put a dial test indicator (dail gauge) in the back of the pump, you need an adaptor to screw into the pump that holds the dti, if you look at the back of the pump, on the metering head, in the center of the injector outlets, you will see a round bung, with three flats on it, this has a bolt in the center, you remove that bolt, 12 0r 13mm hex from memory? and screw the dti into this, you can now measure and set the timing

 

before you strip the engines to remove the timing belts/pullies, lock the cams/pullies etc in place, this way you know the pumps are near enough when you remove the pullies, now you can remove the pump etc... (dont turn the pump once removed), and do whatever you need to do, clean, rebuid eng, etc... then when you come to put it all back together, you just bolt pump back up, put the pulley back on, at this point i normally nip the pulley up, and use the dti, i turn the pump slightly to find lowest point and zero the dti, next is the tricky bit, you basicly want to get the correct setting (cant remember this, but will be somthing like 1.5mm) on the dti, and jiggle the pully so that you can get the pump timing pin in, to lock it up, and still have adjustment left on the vernier part of the pully, next put the cam belt back on and set the cam timing up, now remove all the pins, turn engine over a few times, then put pins back in,

now you double check the pump timing again and make any minor adjustments using the vernier part of the pulley so you have the exact lift that is specified, the pump timing should now be spot on ;-)

 

now that is the proper way, and is the most accurate, really you cant get it any where near without using this method,

 

please be aware that some things may be sightly different from what iv put up there, as this is all off the top of my head, and without having a 2.1 in front of me again to refresh my memory i may have few differences, but this is the general way to do it, and should be pretty accurate,

 

Now black mi, if you are going to use the 2.1 pump, and you can leave it on the engine, just lock all the timing up and remove the belts, and leave all the pullies on, then just refit the belt, and time it up as normal, using the pins, this way you wont have changed anything, so the timing should be good,

but you could always just put the dti in it and make sure, it will be spot on then :-)

 

if you can swap all the bits over with the pump in situ this is much easier as you dont have the hastle of setting the pump pulley/timing up,

 

also a quick guide on how a diesel is running, lots of black smoke and really running rough, usually means the pump is retarded

if there is lots of white smoke, and the engine seems very knocky/pinking this is advanced

 

hope this helps/makes sense, its kind of hard trying to explain the pump timing so it sounds easy, but it it fairly straight forward once you get the idea,

 

if you want the setting for the amount of lift let me know and i will try to get it for you,

 

all the best

[midnight motorsport 0]

hi, the proper way to check the timing is to put a dial test indicator (dail gauge) in the back of the pump, you need an adaptor to screw into the pump that holds the dti, if you look at the back of the pump, on the metering head, in the center of the injector outlets, you will see a round bung, with three flats on it, this has a bolt in the center, you remove that bolt, 12 0r 13mm hex from memory? and screw the dti into this, you can now measure and set the timing

 

before you strip the engines to remove the timing belts/pullies, lock the cams/pullies etc in place, this way you know the pumps are near enough when you remove the pullies, now you can remove the pump etc... (dont turn the pump once removed), and do whatever you need to do, clean, rebuid eng, etc... then when you come to put it all back together, you just bolt pump back up, put the pulley back on, at this point i normally nip the pulley up, and use the dti, i turn the pump slightly to find lowest point and zero the dti, next is the tricky bit, you basicly want to get the correct setting (cant remember this, but will be somthing like 1.5mm) on the dti, and jiggle the pully so that you can get the pump timing pin in, to lock it up, and still have adjustment left on the vernier part of the pully, next put the cam belt back on and set the cam timing up, now remove all the pins, turn engine over a few times, then put pins back in,

now you double check the pump timing again and make any minor adjustments using the vernier part of the pulley so you have the exact lift that is specified, the pump timing should now be spot on ;-)

 

now that is the proper way, and is the most accurate, really you cant get it any where near without using this method,

 

please be aware that some things may be sightly different from what iv put up there, as this is all off the top of my head, and without having a 2.1 in front of me again to refresh my memory i may have few differences, but this is the general way to do it, and should be pretty accurate,

 

Now black mi, if you are going to use the 2.1 pump, and you can leave it on the engine, just lock all the timing up and remove the belts, and leave all the pullies on, then just refit the belt, and time it up as normal, using the pins, this way you wont have changed anything, so the timing should be good,

but you could always just put the dti in it and make sure, it will be spot on then :-)

 

if you can swap all the bits over with the pump in situ this is much easier as you dont have the hastle of setting the pump pulley/timing up,

 

also a quick guide on how a diesel is running, lots of black smoke and really running rough, usually means the pump is retarded

if there is lots of white smoke, and the engine seems very knocky/pinking this is advanced

 

hope this helps/makes sense, its kind of hard trying to explain the pump timing so it sounds easy, but it it fairly straight forward once you get the idea,

 

if you want the setting for the amount of lift let me know and i will try to get it for you,

 

all the best

 

just thought id add, if there is not a vernier pully on the front of the pump assy, then the pump will be slotted, this means that once everything is bolted up, instead of using the pulley to do the final timing, you just move the pump on its mountings, there should be three bolts at the front of the pump(cambelt end) and prob one on the back, losen these and just turn the whole assy,

 

regards, jay

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Engine dropped into the 405:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/B1a...TD/CIMG1702.jpg

 

Problem with the water inlet on rear of block is hitting the subframe mounting point.. so need to modify the outlet somehow...

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/B1a...TD/CIMG1699.jpg

 

I believe this might prove to be a issue on the 205 too.

[welshpug 1,661]

which water outlet is that?

 

is it a bolt on housing? could possibly use the original 405 one.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

which water outlet is that?

 

is it a bolt on housing? could possibly use the original 405 one.

 

Hm nope.. not possible actually. The XUD11 is a different block.

 

The waterpump setup is completely different, and it's an alloy housing bolted to the rear of block.

In this housing both the waterpump and the water outlet is bolted.

 

This is block:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/B1a...TD/CIMG1656.jpg

 

And the housing:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/B1a...TD/CIMG1691.jpg

[weejimmy 1]

looks fun.

my stdt engine is still holding together, im not sure how,

it seems to be way over boosting now so hopfully not long till it bites the dust and i can get a excuse to start this conversion.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Little closer to completion now..

 

Intercooler drops in tomorrow I hope.. shipped from the UK

 

Anyone know what this thing is? (lowest part of diesel pump on 1.9 TD pump)

 

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/B1a...TD/CIMG1734.jpg

 

I have moved over all parts from 1.9 pump to 2.1 apart from this, mainly because the 2.1 pump does not have a hole and treads to accept the connection at the end of the small pipe.

 

So only 1 connector is now loose, all others are connected to something

 

Also made a new water inlet on bottom of block, using 1.9 TD termostat housing etc on the top of the engine, so completely removed the termostat from the bottom inlet now.

 

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/B1a...TD/CIMG1707.jpg

 

Very little clearance, but just enough I think

 

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/B1a...TD/CIMG1711.jpg

 

Gave it a lick of paint so it won't rust away too fast.

 

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/B1a...TD/CIMG1726.jpg

 

This way I can use all orginal main coolant hoses from 405 without any modifications, so I think it's a good solution.

 

Hopefully it will work ok.

[BackStreetRacecars 3]

Loving the idea of going down the diesel route... god work guys!!! but.....Maybe i'm missing something mahoooosive here... but... why dont one of you go down hdi route??? Either retro fitting the hdi stuff to the 2.1 with stand alone management. or just using the 2.0 hdi or 2.2 hdi thats in the newer 406s and stuff??

Edited January 30, 2009 by BackStreetRacecars

[midnight motorsport 0]

hi, that is the cold start advance solenoid, dont worry about this, what other stuff did you swap from the 1.9 pump to the 2.1? hopefully you should not have had too change too much? ie, anything that affects the pumps metering should not be changed,

 

looking good so far :-)

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

hi, that is the cold start advance solenoid, dont worry about this, what other stuff did you swap from the 1.9 pump to the 2.1? hopefully you should not have had too change too much? ie, anything that affects the pumps metering should not be changed,

 

looking good so far :-)

 

Did just change over the throttle arm with a on/off switch for idle/full throttle or something.

 

And also just changed over the banjos for inlet and outlet of pump so I can use all the standard diesel hoses from 405. Nothimg major really.

 

Reason I don't go HDI is that the HDI engine is much more expensive.

This is just a cheap runabout, 300£ for the 1.9 TD 405 and 150£ for the donor 605 2.1 TD car..

So hope to get away quite cheap, intercooler 100£ inc. shipping.

 

Just missing intercooler tubing now.. that seem to be quite expensive in stainless.. maybe more expensive than the car itself

[weejimmy 1]

i dont want hdi because im gonna run mine on veg oil. ( hey its a credit crunch dont you know)

 

got rid of two cars latley and hopefully two more soon so ill get started on mine at some point.

[MikeHunt79 0]

Nice thread

 

If you're in the market for a 406, then I'm guessing the 2.1lump is the one to go for...

 

Does anyone know what year they went over to HDI?

 

Also, this whole EGR thing, will it still pass an MOT with it disabled?

Edited January 30, 2009 by MikeHunt79

[weejimmy 1]

2.1 406 is prety nippy for the size of it,

when i was bringing mine home it wasted my stdt 205, like shamed it.

so hoping itll be fun in the 205,

 

but in a 406 you may be aswell going hdi, as the only reason im using the old one is to run a bosh pump and veggy oil.

but 406 has lucas pump so needs changed,

 

if you dont wana run veggie its just the price diffrence between the hdi and td that would be deciding factor i think.

but i got my 406 for £200 so cheap cheap.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

IC arrived yesterday, and after a little while it was mounted.

 

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/B1a...TD/CIMG1738.jpg

 

Going to be tight with the tubing but think it will just about be clearance

 

Today I might see if it will start!

[Mandic 0]

Looking good.

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Is the bumper going to have room to fit over that?

[welshpug 1,661]

not sure a base model one would, sport level might though.

[weejimmy 1]

black mi do you think the 1.9 pump would work on the 2.1?

i started striping all the gubbins off the 406 today power steering alt air con etc.

im going to take all the stuff i dont need off, but so it can still run, then change pumps over. from lucas to 1.9 bosh.

id like to see if it works this way because the 406 2.1 is much easyer to come across than 605/xm so would be beter for any more conversions in the future.

 

any reason you can see why it wouldnt?

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

black mi do you think the 1.9 pump would work on the 2.1?

i started striping all the gubbins off the 406 today power steering alt air con etc.

im going to take all the stuff i dont need off, but so it can still run, then change pumps over. from lucas to 1.9 bosh.

id like to see if it works this way because the 406 2.1 is much easyer to come across than 605/xm so would be beter for any more conversions in the future.

 

any reason you can see why it wouldnt?

 

Pretty sure it will work, but as I think was mentioned earlier the 605 pump will suit the engine charateristics better though.

 

But why not just try it, I'm sure it will start and run, so only time will show how good it will work in general?

[weejimmy 1]

yeah im hoping so

i got the rest of the front end off the 406 today, all the rads air con power steering and that that it dosent actually need to run so i can get beter access.

hopfully get a free hour between now and next week to whip the lucas off and pop the bosh on.

[midnight motorsport 0]

Did just change over the throttle arm with a on/off switch for idle/full throttle or something.

 

And also just changed over the banjos for inlet and outlet of pump so I can use all the standard diesel hoses from 405. Nothimg major really.

 

Reason I don't go HDI is that the HDI engine is much more expensive.

This is just a cheap runabout, 300£ for the 1.9 TD 405 and 150£ for the donor 605 2.1 TD car..

So hope to get away quite cheap, intercooler 100£ inc. shipping.

 

Just missing intercooler tubing now.. that seem to be quite expensive in stainless.. maybe more expensive than the car itself

 

hi black mi, just a quick check, did you change the whole throttle linkage? as these are set, you will see a mark on the throttle shaft itself, bassicly a line across the top of it, this lines up with some marks on the throttle plate, you need to make sure these stay the same,

if you have not, dont worry too much, you can normally just keep trying different positions untill the engine runs properly at idle, this is normally correct,

 

hope this helps,

all the best,

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

hi black mi, just a quick check, did you change the whole throttle linkage? as these are set, you will see a mark on the throttle shaft itself, bassicly a line across the top of it, this lines up with some marks on the throttle plate, you need to make sure these stay the same,

if you have not, dont worry too much, you can normally just keep trying different positions untill the engine runs properly at idle, this is normally correct,

 

hope this helps,

all the best,

 

Yes I changed the whole linkage.. I think I got it quite right, but have not tried to run the engine for a longer period yet.. But it did start when I tried to start without coolant

 

So I'm getting closer now...

[weejimmy 1]

im catching up.

i got the 1.9 pump on today but its from a 406 so has 3 plugs going into it, im noy sure which ones to feed + to.

so ill try figure it out over the weekend,

hopfully soon have an answer to can a 2.1 run on a 1.9 pump thoe