Tuning The 12v Xud11

[Russ_T 1]

Hiya,

 

Yeah I know, we've had the conversation on a different thread, you're my inspiration for doing it

 

The motor I can have is the later more electronic one though. Disadvantage - sounds more work, Advantage - I can just chip it and leave it alone?

 

Someone mentioned elsewhere when I was googling "if you're doing a 406 engine why not the HDI", I guess though that is even more work again?

 

I also started wondering if it's possible to change the diff ratio or final gear ratio to either drop the revs or improve 5th gear economy?

 

I think I love thinking and planning it as much as driving the car at the moment

 

Cheers

[Strictly_Derv 34]

Oh yeah I remember now. No it's not like the HDi sort of tuning, they have crappy lucas EPIC (EPIC'ly s*it)pumps which you dont want.

Best off removing the pump and electrics and stick in a 11mm Bosch.

[Russ_T 1]

Ok so the only difference really is the pump? I'll get his bonnet up at lunch and have a peruse

 

I'm a little worried the XU11 will be a fair bit heavier as well.

 

It's a shame no one in the car park has a HDI engine I can look at to compare, I don't want the complication of lots of gearbox/driveshaft/mount changes, I'd sooner get it in fairly easily and evolve it.

 

Have you made any changes to yours recently? I'm still trying to get the same economy from the 15" wheels atm and looking for a new rear beem.

[welshpug 1,661]

hdi's will bolt in just fine.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

 

I don't want the complication of lots of gearbox/driveshaft/mount changes,

 

 

Mounts won't change, gearbox and shafts will be standard 205 items depending on which gearbox you would like to use. If you go for a HDI box then you need to change diff etc. Easy enough though.

[Russ_T 1]

Thanks very much for your help guys

 

So HDI maybe the way forward then? There must be a disadvantage somewhere, I have tried some googling to see if it's been done before but I haven't found anything useful so far (just some people more interested in marketing the fact they've built one). Is it just tuning it is more complex? Really I'm looking for more poke and economy, not a race car.

 

I want just to do it the once really. I just swapped the engine in my gfs BMW Mini so I'm OK with the mechanics of the swap generally, but don't want to spend 6 months developing it to get it back on the road again. I appreciate there will be some fabrication no doubt.

 

It's a slippery slope this modifying lark

[welshpug 1,661]

it has been done in a lazer gti, I believe Daviewonder has that shell but is going petrol with it.

 

best donor would be a 90 hdi from a 306 or an early partner/berlingo, later are multiplex, they wont be intercooled but this can be remedied easily, afaik all 110 engines are multiplex but there's minimal differences to the 90.

 

110's tend to have Dual mass flywheels which are to be avoided.

 

Tuning in most basic forms involve remaps which aren't expensive, from thereon you'll get into the world of hybrid turbo's and BMW High pressure pumps., though for economy, best just stay with a standard 90 with an intercooler and a map.

 

 

Electrical side would be much like a gti6 conversion, fuel system you'd just use a gti tank and pump as the hdi uses a lift pump.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

The only fabrication you'll need to do is mounting the intercooler/Radiator set up, possibly exhaust too.

 

You're right there isn't much info on it as it really hasn't been done many times before in 205's. The only disadvantages I can see is working out the wiring side of things as compared to the XUD9's they are more complicated.

[Russ_T 1]

So here are my options

 

1.9 L turbodiesel XUD9 TE/Y I4 - 88 hp

2.0 L turbodiesel HDi DW10 TD I4 88 hp

2.0 L turbodiesel HDi DW10 ATED I4 106 hp

2.1 L turbodiesel XUD11 BTE I4 - 108 hp

2.2 L turbodiesel HDi DW12 TED4 I4 - 131 hp

 

Having translated http://www.forum-auto.com/automobile-pratique/discussions-libres/sujet187168.htm'>http://www.forum-auto.com/automobile-pratique/discussions-libres/sujet187168.htm and http://www.forum-auto.com/automobile-pratique/discussions-libres/sujet187168.htm it seems the HDI is a preferable engine for a daily, but the TD more fun.

 

I know I'm hankering after the 110, but if I can find one that isn't DMF and is feasible for me to install then I might as well start with more ponies I guess?

 

So multiplex is a newer wiring setup and I presume hard to work with?

 

What is involved in the wiring, in my head it's getting the dash and controls to work (probably more trouble than I realise). I suppose the engine/ecu will work as a pair when I swap them both in? I'm sure that's a very naive view though.

 

Sorry for the school boy questions, I just want to take on a project I'll complete and not a nightmare that I sell in parts I might be better off just doing a TD and saving a lot of agro and still have a nice little TD Pug to bomb to work in

 

Thanks again for your help!

[Russ_T 1]

I may be going a bit mental actually, if the tuning sites are to believe (this one is £245 a pop so I imagine that's not the usual £50 generic rubbish chips)

 

http://www.protune-ecu-remapping.co.uk/index.php?remap=40&company=PEUGEOT

 

Then with a 2.2 HDI I'd be knocking on 290lbft, that's about the same as my 300zx and WAYYYYY too much for me in my old DTurbo. Possibly for reliability of parts and making it to work safely I should aim at a 90 with a remap which would still be lots of fun?

 

Cheers

[Strictly_Derv 34]

I may be going a bit mental actually, if the tuning sites are to believe (this one is £245 a pop so I imagine that's not the usual £50 generic rubbish chips)

 

http://www.protune-ecu-remapping.co.uk/index.php?remap=40&company=PEUGEOT

 

Then with a 2.2 HDI I'd be knocking on 290lbft, that's about the same as my 300zx and WAYYYYY too much for me in my old DTurbo. Possibly for reliability of parts and making it to work safely I should aim at a 90 with a remap which would still be lots of fun?

 

Cheers

 

 

If you want remaps, KrisB and Mr.Whippy are the best for the HDI.

I don't like the HDi, too much to go wrong compared to the xud and aren't as easily tunable. BUt the can have more power and are more refined.

If you want the engine done in a few days then just go for the XUD but if you want a challenge or have more time to spare then go for the HDI if you want one

[Russ_T 1]

I think you're right Derv, maybe save a HDI for a "one day when I've plenty of time and more experience" project.

 

I've an XUD already and love it, don't see really why I'd need a HDI.

 

One day

[Strictly_Derv 34]

I think you're right Derv, maybe save a HDI for a "one day when I've plenty of time and more experience" project.

 

I've an XUD already and love it, don't see really why I'd need a HDI.

 

One day

 

 

XUD FTW

[welshpug 1,661]

mechanical DW FTW

 

totally different ballgame though!...

 

a straight 90 hdi transplant will be a very easy task

Edited January 11, 2012 by welshpug

[Russ_T 1]

DW?

 

Ok now I'm off to play DW10 (HDI 90) vs XUD9 vs XUD11. XUD11 wins for HP straight out the box but really I need to consider mpg...

 

Place your bets now!

[welshpug 1,661]

DW12 wins on the HP stakes

 

DW10 wins on MPG.

[Russ_T 1]

OK in a 406 shell with Executive trim and manual box, according to Parkers

 

1.9 TD - 40 mpg

2.0 HDi - 51 mpg

2.0 HDi (110bhp) - 50 mpg

2.1 TD - 39 mpg

2.2 HDi (136bhp) - 44 mpg

 

so the 2.0HDi in either form which must be these

 

2.0 L turbodiesel HDi DW10 TD I4 88 hp

2.0 L turbodiesel HDi DW10 ATED I4 106 hp

 

Seems to be the winner for a fun commuter...

 

And from previous posts the 110 2.0HDI is more of a pain, so I have to weigh up easier swap vs extra 20bhp...

[welshpug 1,661]

a 90 will produce more than 110 with an intercooler and a map

[Russ_T 1]

What will the 110 do with a map? I presume it's already intercooled

 

I don't need that much power, but looking around on ebay the engines cost roughly the same, I guess the 110 brings complications though?

[Russ_T 1]

I'm completely wrong, really the DW10TD is much more available and cheaper, probably best to go HDI 90 (sorry Derv, need the mpg!)

 

I guess I'd need the turbo from it as well as many other parts, my DTurbo bits wouldn't be much cop? I'd like just to get it running and in really and upgrade tubs and bits later but if it's a non starter maybe I should look at getting a crashed car?

[Russ_T 1]

Sorry for spamming - I've just found loads of HDi 110s for sale, at a reasonable price.

[Strictly_Derv 34]

I still get 55mpg on my stage 1/2 205 even with the 1.8 box that revs 3,300 at 60mph, with a HDI box it will be even better.

HDi have much more stuff to go wrong and aren't as reliable from what i've seen. It is much more smoother and quieter.

XUD FTW for me still, as i'm after cheap power and nothing can match it from what i've seen...

 

EDIT 54.8MPG conbined (un economical driving)

Edited January 19, 2012 by Strictly_Derv

[Anthony 1,003]

Remember that your odometer will likely be a fair way out with those wheels, making any MPG calculations based on the reading inaccurate.

 

As I've mentioned before, that gearing really doesn't sound right either - 3300rpm at 60mph (18.1mph/1000rpm) is very short for a diesel, even taking into account your wheels. If you're going by speedo readings (ie not taking into account wheel size) then that's shorter than a 1.6 GTi gearbox...

 

I can't remember exactly, but I'm sure the gearbox on my old 205 STDT was in the region of 24mph/1000rpm in 5th - so 60mph would be about 2500rpm, and my 306 DTurbo was in a similar ballpark. My current 306 HDi is in the region of 28mph/1000rpm in 5th - so 60mph is around 2100rpm (obviously that's on slightly larger wheels though).

 

205 STDT averaged 48mpg, the 306 DTurbo 45mpg, and the 306 HDi 51mpg - all standard engines on original wheel sizes.

[Strictly_Derv 34]

Remember that your odometer will likely be a fair way out with those wheels, making any MPG calculations based on the reading inaccurate.

 

As I've mentioned before, that gearing really doesn't sound right either - 3300rpm at 60mph (18.1mph/1000rpm) is very short for a diesel, even taking into account your wheels. If you're going by speedo readings (ie not taking into account wheel size) then that's shorter than a 1.6 GTi gearbox...

 

I can't remember exactly, but I'm sure the gearbox on my old 205 STDT was in the region of 24mph/1000rpm in 5th - so 60mph would be about 2500rpm, and my 306 DTurbo was in a similar ballpark. My current 306 HDi is in the region of 28mph/1000rpm in 5th - so 60mph is around 2100rpm (obviously that's on slightly larger wheels though).

 

205 STDT averaged 48mpg, the 306 DTurbo 45mpg, and the 306 HDi 51mpg - all standard engines on original wheel sizes.

 

 

I was going by the sat nav for the speed as my speedo reads high anyway. I calculated miles I traveled on google maps and work out from £20 of fuel giving 14.something liters.

[omega 82]

got a hdi 90 iam scrapping on saturday