Non Starting

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Right, well i've had my project on the go for a bit now, trying to get a 5 year old non starter that cost me £75 to a track car.

 

Having never worked on a 205 before, let alone with a car its kind of hard to do everything without a bit of help.

 

Its a Phase 1, 1600, GTi.

 

 

Its sparking on all 4 plugs.

 

Fuel is going to the rail, although 2 injectors will not be working (just found the connectors pushed back in the connector block, and 1 of the connector blocks isnt even attached to the wiring. The fuel pump is working fine.

 

And its cranking at an ok speed according to my source.

 

 

Now really, the wiring side of the car is a bodge! its been fiddled with, and I am by far no electrician! My source spent 2 hours on the phone with me yesterday getting everything plugged in so it will crank, but it wont ever fire.

 

So any suggestions on what I could do other than repairing the injector wiring?

 

I cant get the fuel rail and injectors out! those O Rings are tight as hell!

 

Is there any way I can check my ignition amp and coil?

 

Think I need a new distributor as cables coming from the opposite side from the vaccum advance (think thats what it is?) have lost a bit of insulation and might be shorting... (going to the ignition amp)

 

AFM is working, and so is the TPS.

 

HALPP????

[welshpug 1,657]

sort the injector wiring, no need to replace the dizzy just repair the wiring.

 

ignition amp and could would seem to be fine, as you are getting a spark.

 

check the engine timing, i.e line it up and see if the pins will slot in.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

I will sort the injector wiring, think im gonna cut off the 2 plugs that have no connectors inside, and solder on some that do.

 

Cant do engine timing, no knowledge of how to, or a timing light.

 

Will try and repair dizzy wiring.

[welshpug 1,657]

you don't need a timing light, that's for IGNITION TIMING not ENGINE timing, you need the 2 rods to lock the engine.

 

injector wiring is normally just the pins have slipped out of the back of the plug, just push them back in.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

What do you mean by engine timing then.

[BuD 0]

He means take the cambelt covers off and try to insert a locking pin in each of the cam and crank pulley timing holes. You will need to rotate the engine by hand on the crank bolt. If the timing holes line up (both pins go in at the same time) then the engine timing is correct.

[steve@cornwall 100]

What do you mean by engine timing then.

 

Wouldn't worry about that JUST yet

 

 

If you have a spark now, don't go fiddling with the ignition side just yet either !!!!!

 

Get the injectors out of the head still in situ on the rail ( 2X 10mm bolts at the front of the rail and 2 X 10 mm by the pressure reg - by the small bore black pipe) Put a 17mm open ended spanner at the bottom of each injector and gently lever against the head to loosen each injector in turn. With the rail etc. free crank the engine for a couple of revolutions and check that the injectors are firing fuel. If it fires up at all during this operation the car is overfuelling- prob due to the ecu temperature sensor - and a search of this will produce volumes of info

Edited November 16, 2008 by steve@cornwall

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Well the engine timing lined up when I was changing the cambelt so im sure thats fine anyway.

 

Steve thats my first job 2moro then!

 

Could well be due to the fact the engine hasn't run in 5-6 years and is always stone cold. I havn't even filed the car with coolant yet as theres no point due to these faults!

 

Lets hope I can source the problem 2moro and get the it running smoothly by next weekend!

Edited November 16, 2008 by EdCherry

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Ok,

 

got the ECU loom off to Miles for a bit of repair work, and got it back yesterday.

 

Fitted it back in today and got the injectors out.

 

Cranked the engine no fuel! (Video Below)

 

http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq227/D...nt=DSCN1750.flv

 

Now its either the injectors... which look funked (one left its o ring in the inlet manifold), or the wiring. The fuel pump is going and I can hear fuel going through the fuel rail.

 

Is there any vital wiring that could be stopping it starting?

 

Edited November 27, 2008 by EdCherry

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

If the injectors aren't firing the tachymetric relay is a high possibility.

 

Have you tried spraying anything such as easy start into the intake whilst cranking it?

 

Graham.

[welshpug 1,657]

virtal wiring?

 

I would check that you have power at the injectors, the Engine loom may be 10-0% but what with a missing ignition switch of any kind and the state of the wiring you cannot be certain.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Hi graham,

 

I havn't given anything like that a go.

 

By the looks of it im gonna get to get myself a new power probe (blew mine up running 18v through it ) and start checking the plugs.

 

My loom is such a mess with dodgy wires here and there it might be best to get it all out, check it over and get bits repaired!

 

Might see if I can source a tachy relay to try.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Tried some unknown 1600 injectors from Miles which arn't firing either,

 

Tachy Relay changed and that doesn't affect it either.

 

This is basically pointing towards the wiring.

 

As im no wiring guru I guess im gonna have alot of umming and arrring about what does what but I now have a multi meter to start testing firstly the injector plugs!

[gerlewislewis 0]

im not expert, but could this possibly be another ECU temp sender issue?

[GLPoomobile 958]

im not expert, but could this possibly be another ECU temp sender issue?

 

Nope. A fault with the CTS (coolant temp sensor) causes the ECU to overfuel, but Eds problem is no fuel from the injectors.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I suspect no power going to injectors. That's where I'd start. One wire going to each injector should be permanently live with the ignition switched on. Only do this test with your earth return being the battery neg terminal or the engine block or gearbox, NOT the other pin on the injector plug. Check all 4 please.

 

Let's see if you have 12v at the injectors first Ed.

Edited December 3, 2008 by DrSarty

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Well I've been doing a few other things thanks to Wide Arch 205 off of PSOOC.

 

Got my locking wheel nuts off after 3 month woo!

 

2moro I have the usual day off and will be cleaning the hub threads out to put the stud and nut conversion in, once the bearing fit is drying I will be putting the engine bay wiring back together and re trying cranking it over.

 

Thanks to Wide Arch again I have a load of 1600 spares, ECU, Fuel Rail + Injectors, IGNITION BARREL (Could be a possible cause having to hotwire the car!) and some other stuff.

 

Got a Multi Meter now as well. Will see how many volts I get using the engine block as an earth.

 

This week can only get better!

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Ok,

 

12 Volts at the starter

10 Volts at the starter solenoid

10 Volts whatever terminal I use on an injector plug

 

She fires sometimes, but thats because she fires a small amount of fuel everytime you stop cranking her.

 

I've bypassed the starter solenoid and put 12 volts straight from the battery and she cranks (this is with the key to the position before cranking) but still does fire. I've tried 2 tachy relays, the fuel pump is going.

 

I've moved the earth from the gearbox to the battery tray (still not very good I know) and also have an earth running from the gbox to the battery tray now aswell, where can I move these to for a better earth?

 

Any suggestions please, really starting to annoy me cause I know she will run, starting up and dieing straight away due to no fuel!

Edited December 7, 2008 by EdCherry

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

I should mention I only took the ready off of one injector plug.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You need to answer the following points

 

1. Why is the starter solenoid getting 10 volts and not 12, as the voltage goes thru the solenoid before it gets to the starter

2. Have you got voltage going to the ECU, Fuel pump when cranking, You can bypass 12v to the Fuel pump worst case,

3. Fuel pump Earth OK? this is behind the rear light (N/S)

4. No need to bypass the starter if it cranks via the key.

5. Check the igintion switch wiring

 

The ECU is earthed from the Gearbox and not the chassis, so no doubt you've seen these Earth kit's which do nothing as the ECU loom is pretty much it's own thing

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

1. Why is the starter solenoid getting 10 volts and not 12, as the voltage goes thru the solenoid before it gets to the starter

A. Dont know really, the starter is cranking at a good speed now I moved the battery :$ I will re measure it when I get a chance

 

 

2. Have you got voltage going to the ECU, Fuel pump when cranking, You can bypass 12v to the Fuel pump worst case,

A. Where do I check for voltage on the ECU? Before the first time I cranked the engine I put 12v straight to the fuel pump and it worked fine, while cranking you can hear it going

 

 

3. Fuel pump Earth OK? this is behind the rear light (N/S)

A. Havn't touched anything back there so I guess thats a good possibility, Will check that out once I get a chance

 

 

4. No need to bypass the starter if it cranks via the key.

A. True, was just an idea thrown around last night I thought id try, was told the ECU would self fuel and spark if the starter engaged.

 

 

5. Check the igintion switch wiring

A. The ignition barrel and wiring loom in there at the moment is borrowed from wide arch, will give it a quick check over but dont wanna fiddle with it as its only on loan. I have my old loom but the ignition barrel is cut off so I have to touch all the wires together.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Who ever said that needs to be hit 'was told the ECU would self fuel and spark if the starter engaged'

 

Can you post some good pic;s of the loom and connection's, not the plugs on the engine thou, the main one's inside + In the box by the chassis leg.

 

You can also check for 12v on the tac'o' relay when cranking but if the pump runs while doing this and you have a spark it will run

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Ok, 2moro I will get pictures of the interior fuseboard (messy), the main loom where it enters the engine bay, and where all the connections are.

 

The fuel pump is running as I can feel the fuel running through the fuel return hose and input hose.

 

I've got 2 tachy relays, which pin number should I test for 12v's?

 

Will check again for spark, but as before they were all sparking.

 

Also got another 4 injectors, might end up putting them on, although these ones DO fire when you stop cranking.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

 

Just to put the point across that she fires from the fuel she drops out of the injectors when you stop cranking. That was the first attempt of today after being sat there overnight.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

If I were you I would disconnect the main plug from the ECU, and then using a wiring diagram bell out (check for continuity) to where they should go. If you do this one pin at a time this will show if you have wiring problems to injectors and from sensors.