Turbo Vs Turbo

[Moz_Goodwood 0]

out of the 1.9 turbo technics and the 406 2.0 turbo which is the better engine / conversion and why?

 

im sort of stuck in the middle at the moment, also which one could take more power

 

thanks in advance

Edited November 10, 2008 by Moz_Goodwood

[rapidcossie 0]

406 one all the way!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The TT converion uses a better turbo, Better manifold and had more power, there's allot of ways to think about it in term's of block strength but the Iron block with the TT manifold and a decent ECU would work well

[Moz_Goodwood 0]

is it possible just to upgrade the 406 turbo? is it easy enough to bring the 406 turbo engine up from 150 bhp to 175bhp like the tt one?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

It is difficult if not impossible to do anything with the 406/XM/Xantia turbo as it uses a weird totally unique fixing pattern and exhaust housing arrangement.

[weejimmy 1]

you can get a "love collector" exhaust mainifold for the 406 engine to get a good turbo on it,

 

i know ecosse used to get 220bhp out of them with only pistons and boost upgrade.

with stock mainifolds,

 

pluss you can always bolt on a gti6 head and go 16v turbo

[Moz_Goodwood 0]

them manifolds are bang on but a bit to expensive for me, what did ecosse do to the pistons?

Edited November 10, 2008 by Moz_Goodwood

[weejimmy 1]

put je forged ones in

i know the green 309 (now silver) has had it done about 5 years ago and its still buzzing around here now,

had a few issues with it at 1st but been going strong for a ferw years now.

 

http://www.ecosse-peugeot.co.uk/show_product.asp?id=1076

 

dosent exatly go into great detail

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The one I have done makes 210bhp and 245 Lb Ft of torque, Thats running Omex and a mere .5 bar of boost, It only has the JE Piston's which even thou sold for this engine the compression is still too high, the engine is odd thou it run's out of puff too quickly

[weejimmy 1]

is that not just because its 8v?

never been a big fan of it myself,

 

or the tt

 

much rather 16v turbos

[welshpug 1,661]

from what I've seen its more down to the design of the exhaust manifold and the cam, fit a better cam, a TT type manifold and a suitable turbo, along with decent management and you should get a better result I would imagine.

 

 

don't forget the 2.0 8vt wasn't designed as a performance engine.

 

from what I've seen its more down to the design of the exhaust manifold and the cam, fit a better cam, a TT type manifold and a suitable turbo, along with decent management and you should get a better result I would imagine.

 

 

don't forget the 2.0 8vt wasn't designed as a performance engine.

[Rob Turbo 3]

You can get a bigger compressor wheel and housing fitted to the standard t25 on the 2.0 8v turbo, with this and a decent intercooler, at 12 psi, made 199 bhp and 205 lb ft of torque on standard management.

 

I've since changed the cam, upped the boost and I've now got it running on megasquirt, it's got half a spark table and a very rich fuel table but it already feels better than before so I'm sure there's decent gains to be had once it's mapped properly.

 

It would seem the 2.0 turbo is easier to get hold of as well.

 

A lot of people don't like it though, either because they think it's too much work to fit, not very quick or not very tunable, the first one can be true for some people, it's not a simple swap, but it can be quick and it is tunable.

 

I'm sure most people would rather have a 16v turbo, but that's not exactly an easy to find item for a pug and not the type of thing just anyone can do, I started building one but lost interest and sold up, wish I'd finished it now!

Edited November 10, 2008 by Rob Turbo

[sonofsam 5]

and alot of people dont seem to understand why it runs out of puff so quickly,

even though there is no point revving an 8 valve turbo over 5k anyway..

 

The inlet manifold along with the cam is designed so you get 'instant torque' wich you do from the word go!

If you want more torque up the rev range you need to talk to Pieter at DP enginnering about

their inlet manifold for the 2.0L turbo!

[Jakob 1]

First of all in order to get the prober answers you need to define what output you are after.

 

Forget anything regarding forced pistons before 300-400 hp (it is a detonation issue rather than strength)

 

Forget the TT manifold as an upgrade - it has more or less the same backpressure issue in cylinder 2+3 as the OE manifold.

 

If you are after only a mild upgrade <200hp then both engines will do. However I would always go the OE XU10J2TE rute. It has more bore (86mm vs. 83mm) giving you less valve shrouding. Bigger inlet valves (43mm) and better cooling. Plus it has oil squirts under the pistons. A solid package for later upgrades.

 

Going above 200hp on OE manifold will only bring you more heat and possible detonation issues due to HIGH backpressure. You will need to retard the ignition way out and flush cylinders with gas in order to avoid detonation leaving you with a very unefficient engine.

 

If you are after higher hp, then you would need new exhaust manifolds, inlet manifold, turbo, engine management etc..... but that is a another story!

[Jakob 1]

even though there is no point revving an 8 valve turbo over 5k anyway..

BS! reving an 8valve turbo over 5k does in every way makes sence!!! It is all a matter of flow regardles 8v or 16 valve. RPM is due to flow potential NOT number of valves. It is all a matter of getting your backpressure low enough to run the right cams (high lift, high overlab/duration). Total inlet valve area is a huge factor in flow potential (the biggest), however you can get same flow in a modified 8v "package" (with the right cam base on backpressure) as in a OE 16v "package" = same rpm. It is all a matter of how you build your engine (flow), what you are after etc.

 

The inlet manifold along with the cam is designed so you get 'instant torque' wich you do from the word go!

If you want more torque up the rev range you need to talk to Pieter at DP enginnering about

their inlet manifold for the 2.0L turbo!

 

True, the XU10J2TE OE manifolds (inlet + exhaust) was designed for the wife shopping in city trafic. However, the XU10 engine 86x86 (bore X stroke), has huge potential!! The short block is build more or less as the T16. DP is making good inlet and exhaust manifolds, however the OE XSI 8v plastik manifold or the OE XU9 GTI manifold is a huge upgrade to beginn with over the OE turbo inlet manifold.

[shalmaneser 26]

not particularly on topic, but i was under the impression the 2.0 8V was pretty much plug and play? Fair enough you've got to f*ck around with engine mounts but isn't that about it? Clearly the intercooler is a bit of hassle but cutting the front bumper isn't too much bother is it?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Far from Plug and play unless you know your wiring, there's a few different types of loom etc, No need to cut bumper's for the IC either, it all fits behind with ease

[Moz_Goodwood 0]

Far from Plug and play unless you know your wiring, there's a few different types of loom etc, No need to cut bumper's for the IC either, it all fits behind with ease

 

where about does the inter cooler go without it really showing?, and which one is best to go for?

[Moz_Goodwood 0]

True, the XU10J2TE OE manifolds (inlet + exhaust) was designed for the wife shopping in city trafic. However, the XU10 engine 86x86 (bore X stroke), has huge potential!! The short block is build more or less as the T16. DP is making good inlet and exhaust manifolds, however the OE XSI 8v plastik manifold or the OE XU9 GTI manifold is a huge upgrade to beginn with over the OE turbo inlet manifold.

 

 

so the inlet manifold off a 1.9 8v gti bolts straight on? i take it theres a bit more to it than that

 

what advantages would i get with putting this manifold on?

 

also is the 'love collecter' the only exhaust manifold upgrade available?

 

cheers all

 

paul

Edited November 11, 2008 by Moz_Goodwood

[Jakob 1]

so the inlet manifold off a 1.9 8v gti bolts straight on? i take it theres a bit more to it than that

 

what advantages would i get with putting this manifold on?

 

also is the 'love collecter' the only exhaust manifold upgrade available?

 

cheers all

 

paul

 

Yes the love v2 is the best commercial out there. I have seen some others commercial version in france and italy, but not as good as the love v2. It is all a matter of getting the backpressure as low as possible. This require among others long runners and in some extend equal lenght which the love v2 has.

 

The GTI inlet manifold is IMO still a long way from an optimal manifold due to "weird entry angle", but better than the OE when upgrading.

 

Note:

All XU10 8v has horizontal entry angle

All XU9 trottlebody and carb's manifolds have horizontal entry angle

XU9 GTI manifold has 45 degree entry angle

Using the non-horizontal GTI manifol gives you about 10-15% flow loss according to a flow test made by Guy Croft http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7

 

I have illustrated my opinion previously on a danish forum

 

And you need to "dremel" work the inlets on the top and manifold to go from square to round. Besides that it goes straight on.

 

This is a custom manifold where the runners end up with horisontal entry.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4779/img2661hb5.jpg

[Moz_Goodwood 0]

this might be a stupid question but can you run twin 40 weber carbs on the 2.0 8v turbo engine? or wouldn't it be compatible

[matty_gti 20]

this might be a stupid question but can you run twin 40 weber carbs on the 2.0 8v turbo engine? or wouldn't it be compatible

 

It can work, Cant remember of the top of my head but some cars do this as standard.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Only one I know of, which is a Lotus Esprit turbo, which uses a pair of Dellortos.

 

I have to say though, why you would want to go to the hassle of trying to set carbs up for forced induction when an injection system is far easier and probably costs about the same is beyond me.

[ifcho 0]

Here is a pic of a 1.6 GTI turbo, which a friend of mine made, with the stock manifolds (exhaust and inlet) and it ran quite fast up to 7 000RPM on 1.2bars

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Here is a pic of a 1.6 GTI turbo, which a friend of mine made, with the stock manifolds (exhaust and inlet) and it ran quite fast up to 7 000RPM on 1.2bars

Very interesting, I'm building something similar at the moment, out of interest how much power did he get out of it, and how did the wet liner block cope with boost??