How Long To Get My Car Running On Megasquirt?

[Rob Turbo 3]

My megasquirt loom is practically finished, more or less just need to fit it all into the car and off I go!!

 

The thing is, it's my daily drive, so was planning on starting it on a friday night, straight after work (so around 4-5pm). On the friday I'm sure I'll be able to get the standard loom out, new one in, set the wideband sensor up and fit it, ready to try starting it on the saturday, roughly how long will it take to be able to get it to fire up and drive? Is it likely to be off the road for a while or will I be able to go to work in it on the monday?

 

Or would I be better off planning to fit the loom etc, start messing around with it, then get the standard loom back in for work, then repeat the next weekend?

 

Thanks,

Rob

[jonand 0]

Depends entirely on whether you have suitable configuration data and maps. If you are starting from scratch, and needed the car for work on Monday, I would definately have a back up plan - i.e. adapt the loom so that you can easily switch back to the standard set up.

 

Good luck

 

 

Jon

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

It really does depend on if your doing spark and injection or just injection and how tested your MS is etc...

 

If I remember back when I started playing around with MS, I just used fuel on the squrt, and ran them in tandem for a while.

 

The first stage I had the OE running everything and just the MS listening to spark and wideband to prove the ECU would run on not break!

 

Then I got the car started on a default MS map and tweaked it, but all I need to do to convert back to OE was swap the injector and temp sensor plugs.

 

Then for other reasons the car came off the road and new loom etc was put in. Mine ran first time with the spark connected, but I'd spent hours testing the loom, spark drives etc on the bench first.

 

If everything works, I'd guess you shouldn’t have a problem in getting a rough driveable map for the Monday with just injection. If your doing spark as well, its possible, but your adding more complexity so more can go wrong.

 

 

 

 

Mad.

Edited October 23, 2008 by madspikes

[Rob Turbo 3]

Well I'm going for injection and ignition and starting from scratch so it looks like I'll have to come up with a "plan B" to get to work on monday!

 

I think I've got at least most of the settings somewhere near, I just used the table generator for the ve table and spark table so they will need tweeking, any pointers for a quick setup?

 

Thanks,

Rob

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

done seal up the CAS wires in case you need to swap them around, people seem to have varying results, check and double check your trigger numbers and leave enough time to unplug and switch back. Its quite a big headache getting it running / idling first time round, mapping after that is even worse!!

[Rob Turbo 3]

I thought getting it to start and idle was the worst bit, then use the auto tune thing in megatune to tidy things up?

 

Never mind, it should be all good when it's done! I think I'll try to find a way of leaving both looms in the bay and just swap between them, the only problem is that they are both complete looms, I can't just swap a couple of plugs over, I'll have to completely unplug one loom to get the other one plugged in, and the lambda sensor will need swapping over each time as well because the LC-1 is part of the MS loom so it won't be powered unless the MS loom is plugged into the main connector in the bay, I might just get the pickup insured and use that until the 306 is properly mapped, with the added bonus that I could put the 306 on the back and work on it on my break time at work!!

[Mad Professor 7]

Getting a engine starting 1st time can be abit of a pain as the engine is cold.

 

My advice to get you started is not to worrie about the idle control or cold start setting unto you have got the engine warm.

 

Once you have got the engine warm you can then use your WB02 sensor to adjust you fueling.

 

With the air temp around 15-20c and water temp around 80c at idle try and get your AFR some where around the mid 14's, renamber that 14.7 is stoic, best clean burn. <14.7 = Rich, >14.7 = Lean.

 

If you are unsure of a spark table just use 10deg advange to get the engine running and upto temp, I would not advice driving like this, but saying that when the older fords went into limp home mode they used a static 10deg advance.

 

Once you have got your engine running and warm, before adjusting the fuel or spark table, make sure you have no air leaks anywhere as this will give you no end of problems tuning.

 

Adjusting the fuel table is quite easy if you have a WB02 sensor, you want to aim for a AFR from 14-15 at idle, light thottle AFR of around 14, WOT on a NA engine of around 13, and WOT on turbo'ed/super'ed around 12.0-12.5.

 

You can always go more rich, you will lose power, if you get black smoke out the back that is a sign saying you are running to rich, also if you run mega rich you can bore wash.

 

Setting up the spark table I don't recommend doing your self I have always used a Rolling Road, as you can see the power drop off well before you hit knock, This is somthing you can't see wile just driving down the road.

 

Right back to idle control, I can't renmber if you are using MS1 or MS2 processor, PWM idle control valves are the easier to setup, and react quicker then stepper idle control valves, All the bosch idle control valves I have used seem to work best around 100hz.

 

If you are using the MS2 processor there has a big update in the software with regard to how the idle control valves work, as of yet this update has not made it's way to the MS1 software, and I don't think it will.

 

I hope all this makes some sence to you.

 

If not let me know.

 

Best Regards.

[Rob Turbo 3]

I've bought a 2 wire idle valve from an mi16 off someone on the forum, this is the type you suggested I get wasn't it?

 

What do I do about the idle valve before I get it running? Do I not fit it at all and blank off the 2 pipes, connect it up but not plug it in, or connect it up, plug it in but don't try adjusting the settings?

 

Would it be a good or bad idea to get the car up to temperature on the old management first, then while its hot, swap the looms over and start from there?

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

I ran the car all summer without any idle control! I just set the idle screw on thottle so it the car would idle after about 30 secs after start up, until this point I just rested my food on the throttle. Ok, idle was a little high when warm but my car never had a chance to idle much!

 

A warmer engine would be easier to start.

 

I've set up my ignition map without a rolling road, when it knocks I take a degree or two out - Might be why the engine is awaiting rebuld ! A rolling road tune would be good to fine tune it I expect.

 

Just take it easy with the mapping, start with low rpms and light loads and work your way up....

 

Mapping the supercharged pug on the road wasy fun... Esp when it came to the 6000rpm and full load mapping!

 

Mad.

[Rob Turbo 3]

Well, big day tomorrow, my backup plan is I'm taking out a trade policy tomorrow so I can drive my pickup/recovery truck, so if needs be I'll go to work in that! I'm being optomistic though and hoping that it will fire up straight away (ish) and be driveable by monday

 

Back in the real world though, what am I gonna have to change to get it to fire, I'm fairly positive that I have the trigger wheel settings right, I've set the entire spark table to 10 degrees advance, the fuel table was set using megatune's calculator, but once it starts the LC-1 should sort that out.

[Mad Professor 7]

If you can start the car with the stock ecu and get the engine upto working temp around 80c.

 

Then block off your Idle control valve.

 

Swap over to megasquirt, make sure you have callbraited all your sensors, Water temp, Air Temp, TPS & o2 sensor, as if you have not got this set right you are in for no end of problems.

 

When you setup your LC1 for your WB02 sensor, did you adjust the output settings? i.e AFR10:1 = 0v / AFR20:1 = 5v? like this.

 

 

And setup the megasquirt via megatune like this

 

or

 

I would then try and start the car with the megasquirt, and if you can keep the engine running, adjust the throttle to idle around 1500rpm, and adjust your afr for around the mid 14's.

 

Then slowy bring your idle down, and keep adjusting the afr again around the mid 14's.

 

If i renmber right you are running MS1 processor, i can't renmber if you are running the extra code.

 

On a 12x12 fuel table I set the rpm bin's as follows, 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500, 4000, 5000, 6000.

 

You can set your rpm bin's to anything you like, but this is just how I start off.

[Rob Turbo 3]

Well it started! With only one problem, I wired up the relay wrong, it didn't have a positive supply, it had the ground from the ecu, and a ground at the gearbox, instead of a switched live!! I haven't fixed that yet, I just bridged the relay, I'm off out to rewire it properly now!

 

It's very spluttery and backfiring, but that's because nothing's been set on it, just the generated fuel table, after I've rewired the relay I'll start mapping.

 

Thanks for all your help, I'll be back soon with more questions!!

[Doof 11]

This will be impressive if you manage it over a weekend. Certainly something to give the rest of us confidence in MS

[Rob Turbo 3]

Well it's not looking good for getting to work in it on monday, my usb to serial adaptor has died, no more mapping for me

[Doof 11]

Get yourself to maplins if you've got one nearby, theres 2 near me open til 6 or 8! Come on, MS in a weekend would be a great achievement.

[Rob Turbo 3]

I've just been to computer orbit, about 45 mins drive, but I've got another serial adaptor, it's too cold and dark to play with it anymore, it starts fairly well and ticks over, it won't drive though and the auto tune thing seems useless, so far I can rev it fairly smoothly up to about 2500 rpm, the 10 degrees spark thing doesn't seem to be working out too well though, I changed it to all 5 degrees and it seems much easier to work with.

 

I'll crack on tomorrow, hopefuly get to drive it a bit then!

[Mad Professor 7]

I would advice you not to use the auto tune that is built into megatune.

 

But to start logging before starting your engine on megasquirt, Start the engine and adjust the idle starting at 1500, and hold it at 1500rpm for 30-60sec, then move to 1600rpm for 30-60sec, then to 1700rpm, for 30-60sec, ect, ect upto 2500rpm, then come back to 1500rpm for 30-60sec again, then lower the rpm by 100rpm down to your lowest idle, most 205's can idle down to around 700-800rpm.

 

Once you have spent 5 to 10 min's doing this turn off the engine, and save the log file and msq file to your desktop.

 

Then download MegaLogViewer: http://www.efianalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/download/

 

Once you have this software setup it will scan your log file, and then adjust your fuel table, then all you need to do is export the fuel table, and then inport to your megasquirt via megatune.

 

Once you have done this a few times, then just drive logging wile trying to drive up and down your drive and or car park, after doing this a few times the car will become easyer to move.

 

Good luck.

[Rob Turbo 3]

I tried logging then using MegaLogViewer to adjust the fuel table and it made a mess of it, I had the idle sorted and it would rev up to 2k smoothly, after trying the log viewer it woulf barely tick over and was running lean, I also can't get it to rev up to 3k, at about 2.5-2.7k it just starts popping and back firing and the rev counter bounces all over the place, I've got the fueling about right, right up to just where it starts backfiring, then nomatter what I do to the fueling or spark table it's just the same.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks,

Rob

[Rob Turbo 3]

Well, thanks to Mad Professor I can now drive the car I needed to adjust the VR pots to kill some noise from the CAS, I've been for a quick spin, well, not that quick, just light throttle, up to about 3.5k, I'll get my dad to take me for a spin in a bit so I can do a bit more mapping to make it properly driveable, then I'll be going to work in it tomorrow hopefuly!

[Doof 11]

Fantastic result there Rob, MS in a weekend really is great to hear. Having someone like Mark on here is really useful. He's helped me a hugh amount already and I don't even have an engine in the bay yet!

 

Keep us posted on the mapping progress and try and document anything that would trip us other future MS'ers up when its our turn

 

Oh yea, and enjoy it, im so jealous

[Rob Turbo 3]

Just got back in from my little mapping session, it's more or less mapped up to about 3k, so I'll be driving it to work tomorrow, very gently, but it's not far, then I'll get back on with it tomorrow night. Even my dad enjoyed it, so much so that I had to keep telling him to keep it steady and around 2.5-3k!

 

I think I'll have to tweek the vr pot a bit more, there's still a spike at about 4k, I didn't intend on it getting revved that high, but like I said, my dad was enjoying himself!!

 

I'll keep you all posted.

[welshpug 1,657]

is this on the Turbo engine? well done for getting this far so quickly!

[Rob Turbo 3]

Yeah it's on the turbo engine, I'm quite surprised I've got this far so quickly as well! I was expecting to have only just got it to fire up by now and have to spend most of next week getting it to idle.

[Rob Turbo 3]

It's not quite as good as I thought, this morning it took a bit to get going, just turned over and over then spluttered into life and had to be revved quite a bit to keep it going, I know that I'll need to adjust the warm up enrichment, it's just that I won't be able to do that until the weekend now.

[Doof 11]

Why can't you do that until the weekend? This is interesting progress, you can't make us wait til the weekend