Brake Upgrade For 205mi16

[bill 0]

My brakes are fairly decent to be honest, they are drilled discs and thats all i know, but i'd like to upgrade them, the car originally started life as a 1.6 gti, but has an mi16 engine in now, so what would be a good upgrade for my car?

 

ps. how can i tell if it has 1.6 or 1.9 brake set up?

 

is there a good up grade option using other pug brakes? if so what?

 

cheers folks

[Redtop 14 2 Cars]

My brakes are fairly decent to be honest, they are drilled discs and thats all i know, but i'd like to upgrade them, the car originally started life as a 1.6 gti, but has an mi16 engine in now, so what would be a good upgrade for my car?

 

ps. how can i tell if it has 1.6 or 1.9 brake set up?

 

is there a good up grade option using other pug brakes? if so what?

 

cheers folks

 

A 1.6 has drum brakes on the rear whereas the 1.9 has discs all round. The front calipers on a 1.6 are bendix and the 1.9 is girling. Bendix is stamped on the 1.6 caliper.

[bill 0]

A 1.6 has drum brakes on the rear whereas the 1.9 has discs all round. The front calipers on a 1.6 are bendix and the 1.9 is girling. Bendix is stamped on the 1.6 caliper.

 

I have drums on the rear, so i know they are 1.6 items, i was reffering to the fronts really, should have said this , but i'll check my calipers for any stamps this weekend, cheers for that, presuming they are standard, whats a good upgrade option?

[grandos 16]

loads of options really depending on your budget

 

205 Gti 1.9

306 Gti6

307 can't remeber on the model

206 Gti 180

to name a few some are easier than others to fit I think 406 brembos have been done and of course there are 4 and 6 pot caliper upgrades out there if your prepared to spend the money.

 

for example the 1.9 brakes would be the cheapest but you could probably pick up 306 gti6/307 brakes for between £150-300 i'd imagine, maybe cheaper.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Because your car started life as a 1.6 then without changing either the hubs & or driveshafts your upgrades are seriously limited to better pads & calipers (1.9 girling) because there aren't very many upgrades for the 1.6 hubs available.

 

Unless you choose something like the big brake caliper spacer kit from Constella but from a quick look on the website I think they are only for use on the 1.9 GTi hubs. Although they will also fit straight onto the base model hubs as well which fit the 1.6 GTi driveshafts.

 

Graham.

[mattbenselin 0]

Hi I have a 1.6 brake set-up also and was thinking what I could to upgrade. In the back of my mind I have this memory of Neil at DES Developments telling me when I was over there a while back that Mi16 standard calipers fit straight onto 1.6 GTI hubs, or maybe need little spacing. So no need to swap over to 1.9 hubs and driveshafts. I am 90% sure this is what he said but could anyone confirm this please?

[Baz 421]

Possibly because the 405 Mi16 has a different offset, not sure if they'd fit straight on a 1.6 though it sounds plausible.

[welshpug 1,657]

I doubt the 405 Caliper would fit straight on and work with a 405 disc, it has a lower offset than the 1.9 205.

 

there may be a pug out there with a deep enough offset 266mm disc, what that would be I'm unsure.

[mattbenselin 0]

So you don't think there is any way the Mi16 caliper will fit? Unless there is a disc which would fit. I don't know enough about the exact offsets and requirements of these components I'm afraid, just what I thought I was told. So the only combination which fits is the standard 1.6? If anyone else knows more would be great? Cheers

[Baz 421]

No, as above the easiest combintaion is 1.9 girling calipers on the std 1.6 hub & disc. Couple with decent pads & fluid they're pretty damn good IMO!

[mattbenselin 0]

I was under the impression, and this was confirmed by what pugtorque said, that 1.9 Girling calipers won't just drop straight onto the 1.6 hubs, you need 1.9 hubs, therefore you need the 1.9 driveshafts also?

[2052006 10]

1.9 (girling) calipers will fit on a 1.6 hub. You need 1.9 calipers plus the 1.9 caliper mounting bolts (different to 1.6 ones). Then you need to use the 1.6 disc.

[kyepan 291]

having been here, done this and got the tshirt.. you have a few options which i'll rate for hassle cost and braking performance, firstly leave the rears, they are fine.

 

on the fronts you have options.

willwood 4 pot calipers - bolt straight on - not tested these but willwood polymatrix pads eat discs, will be light weight.. cost circa 3-400 quid + your choice of pads

 

1.9 set up - requires new hubs, probably wheel bearings pressing in, driveshafts... cost maybe 100-200 depending on where you source the bits from, new second hand. +3kgs per side extra un sprung

weight. quite a few people

 

307hdi 2.0 - requires new hubs again, probably bearings pressing in, driveshafts, cost 220 for the brakes new + pads (ive got brembo ds2500) + 100 ish for driveshafts and hubs + 5kgs per side extra unsprung weight.. which makes a big difference to the feel of the steering but they stop like nothing ive experienced.

 

gti-6 - same disc size as 307 but needs a different master cylinder because the piston size is larger and you get a LONG pedal. needs hubs, driveshafts, + setup 50-200 depending on finding one in the breakers yard + pad of choice... would imagine they are as good as 307.

 

Personally i would get some mintex M1144 pads or ferrodo ds2500 pads in the 1.6 set up you have now with some braided hoses and see how you get on, they're a very light setup and cheap to service, with similar disc size to the girling 1.9 calipers...

[Ryan 99]

A budget option is to fit base-model hubs. They will fit the 1.6 driveshafts, and let you fit any of the brake upgrades that fit the 1.9 (307, GTI-6, etc)

[Baz 421]

loads of options really depending on your budget

 

205 Gti 1.9

306 Gti6

307 can't remeber on the model

206 Gti 180

to name a few some are easier than others to fit I think 406 brembos have been done and of course there are 4 and 6 pot caliper upgrades out there if your prepared to spend the money.

 

for example the 1.9 brakes would be the cheapest but you could probably pick up 306 gti6/307 brakes for between £150-300 i'd imagine, maybe cheaper.

 

 

Because your car started life as a 1.6 then without changing either the hubs & or driveshafts your upgrades are seriously limited to better pads & calipers (1.9 girling) because there aren't very many upgrades for the 1.6 hubs available.

 

Unless you choose something like the big brake caliper spacer kit from Constella but from a quick look on the website I think they are only for use on the 1.9 GTi hubs. Although they will also fit straight onto the base model hubs as well which fit the 1.6 GTi driveshafts.

 

Graham.

 

 

No, as above the easiest combintaion is 1.9 girling calipers on the std 1.6 hub & disc. Couple with decent pads & fluid they're pretty damn good IMO!

 

It wasn't a trick, or said for fun!

[welshpug 1,657]

What he said!!!

[Baz 421]

From another POV, I've had all the brakes Justin(kyepan) mentioned too, GTi180/307 HDi, Wilwood 4pots, GTi6, aswell as Alcon 4pots, not saying they're all crap, but i don't have any of them anymore on any of my cars for a reason.

 

They're overkill IMO, and 1.9 Calipers with decent pads and fluid, as i've said, and i'll say until i'm blue in the face, are good enough.

[jackherer 543]

I'm with Baz here, I drive a 205 with wilwood 4 pots on 285mm discs with carbon lorraine pads and the limiting factor is the tyres, I also drive a 205 with standard 1.9 discs and calipers with mintex m1166 pads and again the limiting factor is the tyres.

 

edit: I would be interested in trying some 4 pot calipers on standard size discs as this would reduce unsprung weight significantly but I've never seen it done on a 205, everyone always fits huge discs when they fit expensive calipers.

Edited October 25, 2008 by jackherer

[mattbenselin 0]

I hate to sound like a numptie, and I know you all have a lot more experience in this area than I do, but there seems to be conflicting opinions on the 1.9 set-up. It's been written that you CAN use 1.9 calipers on 1.6 hubs, yet also that you HAVE to get the full 1.9 set-up in order for them to fit? Could we please clarify which it is? Or have I just been reading into this too much!!!

What's wrong with the 1.6 calipers anyway, how much are they inferior to the Girling ones?

[Simsy 0]

After owning a GTi6 before the 205 even on the 306 they are awesome brakes, but i think they might be a touch too big for a 205. My 1.9 seems to stop pretty well on the standard brakes, just the limitation of having stinky P6000's causing it to skid about under hard braking

Edited October 25, 2008 by Simsy

[craig f90 0]

I hate to sound like a numptie, and I know you all have a lot more experience in this area than I do, but there seems to be conflicting opinions on the 1.9 set-up. It's been written that you CAN use 1.9 calipers on 1.6 hubs, yet also that you HAVE to get the full 1.9 set-up in order for them to fit? Could we please clarify which it is? Or have I just been reading into this too much!!!

What's wrong with the 1.6 calipers anyway, how much are they inferior to the Girling ones?

That makes me a numpty too then!!

Ive been lead to belive that the girling caliper wont fit a 1.6 hub. But i think its the offset of the 1.9 disc compared to the offset of the 1.6 disc. Not the mounting of the caliper.

I know that the 1.6 shaft is skinnier than the 1.9 drive shaft, so thats the reason for hub change after fitting 1.9 shafts. I suppose it would force you to go girling from there. Thats what ive done to the turbo with the addition of toyos better discs pads and fluid.

[Baz 421]

1.9 Calipers DO fit a 1.6 hub, using 1.6 shafts, discs etc, with the shorter 1.9 caliper bolts.

 

I have this on a car outside now, works well, cheap, easy.

[mattbenselin 0]

Ok thanks for that! Sorry to drag this out but is it worth fitting the 1.9 calipers over the 1.6 ones? Are they really that much better?

[Baz 421]

Yes, if the 1.6 ones are worn, put the car in reverse then brake, loud clonk? they're f*cked...

[shalmaneser 26]

1.9 Calipers DO fit a 1.6 hub, using 1.6 shafts, discs etc, with the shorter 1.9 caliper bolts.

 

I have this on a car outside now, works well, cheap, easy.

 

Listen to the man, he knows about that which he speaks!!!!

 

I've just done this exact upgrade, you still use the 1.6 hubs, D/S, and discs, but simply mount the 1.9 calipers - using 1.9 bolts as the 1.6 bolts are wayyyyyyyyyy too long.

 

Much better than the 1.6 items, new braided flexis, pads and fluid transformed my braking system for about £60.