Hi Flow Heads 2300cc Internals

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Oh....... Umm ok then, ill have to get the block stripped and see, ive never rebuilt a block before so im on a big learning curve but cant wait to get goin

[davepug205 7]

wardy18 any progress on this im currently searching for a 96mm crank and looking for advise not decided on 87 or 88 bore yet.

 

Also is anyone building something similar as I cant find much info on hear please PM me.

 

Regards

 

Dave

[welshpug 1,661]

Black_mi16 has built a 2.3 ish iron block engine, he has a project thread that documents it pretty thoroughly

Edited May 20, 2009 by welshpug

[richsmells 2]

205 T16s are XU8 and completely different. XU10 T16 engines are from a 405.

[welshpug 1,661]

that would be the 405 T16 engine which is a 2.0, NOT the 1.8 that was a special engine for the 205.

 

the 405's T1 engine is pretty much identical to the S16 engine apart from some details like different valves pistons and IIRC a different crank and rods, but the block itself the same, they're also pretty much the same as the XU10J4R and RS engines, and the 10J2 bottom ends.

 

in essence, it doesn't really matter which you start with when you're looking into a project like this one.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I never went ahead with this engine mate, if I had more money for the rods and pistons and then the whole conversion, also if I ever moved up a class allowing me to run a better block than just the xud9 iron block (no spray bars) then I would definitely go this route, wanna do this one day thou so its on the cards

 

Good luck mate

[davepug205 7]

Im starting with an RS engine, tho I belive the s16 head has more material to play with for different cams, could be wrong tho. Ill be sticking with my RS head.

 

Im looking into the diy turbo mainfolds so 88 bore might not be advisable.

 

Im no expert by any means so Ill just be sourcing the parts for the chosen engine builder, who will advise something completely different

Edited May 20, 2009 by davepug205

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Wardy>

I'm really feeling you've lead us all a merry dance here.

 

Most of what's been discussed in upped-displacement engines, including Mandic's crystal clear table of bore x crank options to give 2.1, 2.2 (what I have: 87mm bore x 92mm XUD11 crank) have been discussed in several threads before and here again.

 

The XU10 iron blocks are fine to bore out to 87mm, but even 87.5 & 88 are definitely pushing it; although BlackMi16 seems to have gotten away with it so far.

 

But it always requires the use of custom forged pistons, and inevitably some additional work on or even custom rods. You must've known this and the associated costs, which is between £600 & £1000. So now you've binned this effort and everyone's wasted their time offering their friendly advice.

 

*Rant over*

Edited May 21, 2009 by DrSarty

[Batfink 201]

Why change your engine when you are winning your class......

only spend what you have to!

[taylorspug 7]

Why change your engine when you are winning your class......

only spend what you have to!

 

Couldnt agree more, optimise what you have!

[taylorspug 7]

Wardy>

I'm really feeling you've lead us all a merry dance here.

 

Most of what's been discussed in upped-displacement engines, including Mandic's crystal clear table of bore x crank options to give 2.1, 2.2 (what I have: 87mm bore x 92mm XUD11 crank) have been discussed in several threads before and here again.

 

The XU10 iron blocks are fine to bore out to 87mm, but even 87.5 & 88 are definitely pushing it; although BlackMi16 seems to have gotten away with it so far.

 

But it always requires the use of custom forged pistons, and inevitably some additional work on or even custom rods. You must've known this and the associated costs, which is between £600 & £1000. So now you've binned this effort and everyone's wasted their time offering their friendly advice.

 

*Rant over*

 

I dont think he has. Hes come up with an idea and thoroughly assessed his options with regard to building and running the engine in hillclimbs and sprints, and then decided against it for the reasons hes stated in his above post- namely class restrictions. Judging by his recent success, Wardy must be doing something right! Also the information is there for others to use now if they so wish.

 

Are we not allowed to post topics unless we plan on comitting to the idea from the outset then Rich? Its a web forum, the whole point is its a place to throw ideas around and get peoples opinions, without actually having to spend the money. Also looking through the topic this is your first post in it, so hes not wasted any of your time!

Edited May 21, 2009 by taylorspug

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

thanx for that mate! there are many reasons why I haven't needed to go down this route, class restrictions, larger cars now dropping out of my class so not needing the extra power, no competition in my class now so looking to drop down a class to make it worth while, also within the last month a wedding to pay for on our own!

 

To start with and still a bit now I know nothing about what could be done with these engines so being a forum this is where answers are available!

 

If I've wasted peoples time then I'm very sorry but if it affects you that much then don't read the thread, Itsunami obvious the thread has been a little useful as someone has read it and followed up on it!

 

I would love to do this engine one day and atleast now I have the info I need!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

What I said was a bit harsh and for that I apologise.

 

I did state the main reason was that Wardy stated (after all that info) that he didn't want the cost, when the forged pistons alone would've been necessary from the outset.

 

The more info on here the better I agree; but it has been getting messy of late with many duplicate threads. I used it as an example.

 

Not everyone's idea on here has to become a reality; that's why we do the exploration on here first. It's just the way it was worded after all of that expertise and seeming enthusiasm for doing the work, to then say the cost was prohibitive when it was there all along struck me as a little strange. Hence my comment.

 

I also totally agree with building on what you have as (as people have said) you're clearly very good with it.

 

How many more threads are we going to have regarding "what's it worth?" for example, and Saveit seems to be talking about 4 different engines and confusing the bejesus out of people. That's been commented on so I merely expressed my feelings which I'm entitled to do also.

 

The forum seems to go through these funny stages, but it always comes out a better place in the end. Everyone needs a little rant now and again and I've hopefully justified mine. Any help I can be to you Wardy or anyone else for that matter, I'll go out of my way to give.

[Batfink 201]

I'd hate to know what people think of me as its taken me 6 years with my project so far lol

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I'd hate to know what people think of me as its taken me 6 years with my project so far lol

 

 

Didn't you give yourself that title...<..under your avatar?

 

We love everyone here. This is a giant hug place...with the odd mincer.

[Saveit 0]

...and Saveit seems to be talking about 4 different engines and confusing the bejesus out of people. That's been commented on so I merely expressed my feelings which I'm entitled to do also.

No no - only 2 different engines, 8v or 16v 1600cc Sorry if i am confusing you, but i am only talking about 2 different engines

 

None of the proposed solutions seem to reach 2.4 liters? I have a 2.4L iron block mi16, and Peugeot Sport Engineering in Denmark have just come up with a new 2.5L stroker kit for peugeots. So should be possible to reach more than 2237 cc or something like that?

[Mandic 0]

As far as the capacity goes, You can get 98mm crank from Denmark and bore certain iron block to say 89mm, this way You get 2438cc, with 88mm bore You get 2384cc.

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[kutija 1 1 Cars]

What 98mm crank and how much?

[Mandic 0]

 

Contact Kristian or VP, they'll know more.

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

just a note to bare in mine

 

this 98mm crank would result in quite extensive work inside the block for it to fit, even the 96mm 406 2.2td crank results in block work as the stroke is so much longer than standard, the bottom of the bores need machining to fit

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

The cranks with longest stroke is 100mm that came from Denmark I think (if they havent made something even longer by now).

 

So this crank and a 89mm bore block will give 2489cc.. so almost 2.5 litres.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

That will be a very long stroked and sluggish engine I guess..

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

That will be a very long stroked and sluggish engine I guess..

 

Don't think so really.

 

My 2.3 litre has 94.5mm stroke so it's not that far away, and it's much more rev happy anyway than a 2.0 Mi16 with 86mm stroke.

 

Engines don't need to get sluggish by the longer stroke, only thing that might be a problem is that rods get thrown out of the block if you rev it too high

[Saveit 0]

That will be a very long stroked and sluggish engine I guess..

 

Not at all. Actually i think its opposite. I have a 2.4L made here in Denmark by the company that does these long-stroke cranks. I guess mine would be the 98mm crank. And i can tell you, its a revy beast. When you hit the throttle and it reached 3000rpm all hell breaks loose, its almost uncontrolable. It flies through the rev range, its like you almost have to keep your eyes on the dashboard in order to shift gear before it hits the limiter. Actually i think the engine is too powerful for a 205. I would like a longer gearing for it but i am not that in to gearboxes and replacing different parts and so on, so ill just have to go with the 1.9 gearbox as it is. But the car is not at all sluggish.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Saveit

[Guest L2theK]

It should be said that the cranks dosn't come from Denmark, they are from England.

they are special made from a company by the name of fardon, they manufacture both the 98 mm and the 100 mm crank.

 

The 96 mm peugeot crank is from the peugeot 406 2,2 liter engine, engine code EW12j4.

 

If you use the 96 mm crank and pistons from a BMW M3 you'll end up with a 2251 cm3 and this is more than half the cost of using a Fardon crank.