Need This Engine Confirmed What It Is

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Have found a 306 XSi 2 ltr 8v (supposidly) but i just want to make sure this what it actually is, is has XSi badges on it, is a 5 door if that helps too.

 

Please see attatched pics and let me know what you think, i couldnt see an engine code but without filthy i couldnt really look properly, the engine has done 51k which is really good!! If this is the 2ltr 8v then does that mean this is the XU10 8v head?!

 

let me know what you think

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Looks like a 2.0 8v 306 XSi engine to me.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

good good, just checked out other on ebay and yeh they do match

 

can someone give me the particulars of this engine please:

 

- is it the XU10 8v engine

- are the valves 1mm bigger than XU9 head

- what the bore size

- whats the crank size

- is the block alloy or iron

- can i use my catcam from my XU9 head in this engine

- can i swap over my twin 45 webers straight onto this head

- what engine mounts do i use for the 205 (i think the only difference will be for the head)

 

anything else you can add

 

many thanx

 

simon

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Stick with the 8v head, Much better and you won;t have the impossible job I guess with the Mang... inlet manifold due to the different inlet port shape and position

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

What stick with my xu9 8v head or stick with the new 8v head on the 306 engine ive got which is possibly the xu10 with the bigger valves?

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

bigger inlet valves yes but more restrictive on the exhaust side so theres no immediate gains I suspect. Also to get the best you need to reshape the inlet ports to match the gti plenum, by the time you do that and port the exhaust to get it same or better than the gti head you may as well rework the gti head

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Oh so not too much of a gain then, i might phone matt at qep as i know he does work on these heads an see what if thinks!

 

anyone got any spec on the bottom end of this engine?

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

Ive got one in bits in the garage now, what do you want to know about them?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Well no one has actually confirmed if this engine is the xu10 yet, im not sure myself, is it an iron solid deck or alloy block? What size bore an crank out of interest? Is the head any use

[welshpug 1,657]

yes it will be an iron block XU10, 86mm x 86mm.

 

best off sticking with alloy blocks if you're staying 8 valve IMO (including the head)

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Whys that? Thanx for the info btw

[welshpug 1,657]

lighter and more powerful, stuff fits straight on (or at least easier to mod)

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

- is it the XU10 8v engine; Yes, it is the XU10J2 engine.

- are the valves 1mm bigger than XU9 headYes, the inlet valves shoud be 1mm bigger than in the XU9 head.

- what the bore size; Bore is 86mm.

- whats the crank size; Crank stroke is also 86mm.

- is the block alloy or iron; Iron block.

- can i use my catcam from my XU9 head in this engine; Yes, catcam's are often the same model for the XU5/7/9/10.

- can i swap over my twin 45 webers straight onto this head; Not without reshaping the inlet ports to match the manifold but with the correct manfiold, yes.

- what engine mounts do i use for the 205 (i think the only difference will be for the head); Standard 205 mounts & XU10 upper engine mount are fine. There aren't any mounts on the head

 

Graham.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

excellent info thanx

 

what bhp/torque does this engine give out as standard compared to the xu9 im currently running?!

 

if i did match the inlet ports to my carbs manifold and opened up the exhaust ports slightly would i see a gain over the xu9 gti engine running the carbs and cam i have?!

 

or i could just get hold of a XSi 16v head from the uk and replace this 8v head with the 16v head.....would that be better?!

[welshpug 1,657]

5bhp less, 123 as opposed to 128, quite possible you'll get more BHP once modified, but it'll still be heavier.

 

I thought you were going to build an alloy blocked 16v?!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

123bhp at 5500rpm from memory, cannot recall the torque but more than a 1.9 8v much like the old 405 SRi engine,

As a engine in a 306 or 405 it is slow, abit the car's weigh allot but they don;t set the world alight with perforamce at all.

On the inlet 8v 205 GTi manifold without allot of work on your manifold you will not get the ports to match, I know the mangletsi one's have problems fitting a normal 8v as it is so you'll need the TIG welder out to build the ally up

As said you would be better installing larger inlet valve's on the GTi head instead of working on the exhaust valves on the XU10 head

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Yeh i have the spare built up ally block but i have jus got this 306 xsi engine for free so was jus seeing how good it was

 

i think ill still go for the 16v head, sounds less hassle and the xsi head can be used as it is, but what block would it work best on the ally 1.9 block or the iron 2ltr block both run as standard blocks?

 

if the iron block has more torque them this may be better for the hillclimb events but then you gotta take into account the weight!

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

i think ill still go for the 16v head, sounds less hassle and the xsi head can be used as it is, but what block would it work best on the ally 1.9 block or the iron 2ltr block both run as standard blocks?

The XSi head can only be used as it is on the XU10 block, fitting it to the XU9 means it will need a skim & the intake ports reshaping to match an inlet manifold unless you managed to find a suitable carb inlet one for that engine but i don't think anyone makes them.

 

The XU10J2 121.1bhp @ 5750rpm & 133.1lbft @ 2750 rpm. Approx 6bhp down but 12lbft up on the XU9, no where near enough to counter act the extra weght imo.

 

Graham.

[Anthony 1,003]

The XU10J2 121.1bhp @ 5750rpm & 133.1lbft @ 2750 rpm. Approx 6bhp down but 12lbft up on the XU9, no where near enough to counter act the extra weght imo

GTi cam and ditching the CAT should bring the power upto atleast GTi levels, if not more - the standard cam is very mild, it's tuned for 95RON, and CAT's on most early-mid 90's cars like that sap power.

 

Indeed, I reckon that an XU10J2 engine, sans CAT, skimmed to approximately 10:1 compression with a GTi cam and GTi management/dizzy should be good for about 135hp and 135-140lbft, which would pretty much be the torque difference between a 1.6 and a 1.9 again.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Ok thanx for all the info

 

so in your opinions which engine would be better;

 

what im running now, standard 1.9 xu9 bottom end with xu9 head at 10.9 cr with a rally catcam an twin 45's

 

or

 

the 2.0 ltr xsi block (xu10j2) from the engine i have jus got with a 16v xsi head (xu10j4 i think) with gti 6 cams an exhaust mani with the twin 45's (sourcing a inlet mani) an a 11.1 cr maybe

[welshpug 1,657]

Personally I'd stick the 10J4R head gti6 cams and exhaust manifold on the XU9 Alloy bottom end myself.

 

will need a change of pistons though (to get the right CR and valve pockets, but you can use off the shelf 1.9 MI16 pistons for that I think, gudgeon pin size may differ)

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

For all that effort though you amy as well stick a complete xu10j4r in as a lump, 10.4 CR as standard isnt too bad and potential for the engine is far greater than most, including the alloy blocks due to the larger range of crank swaps and piston combo's available.

But thats not the topic. If the 10j2 is free then why not stick with your current engine for a while and just build the free lump to a silly spec over time ready to drop in? That or sell it off to fund something better.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Hmm sounds good, please expand on this silly spec?! See thats what im thinkin in that i now have a iron block for free that i can bore to 88mm then source a big crank an go silly with it then fit a nicely worked xsi 16v head an off i go, but i need a little more power to keep up with the class for next year while ill be buildin this engine so wanna do somethin cheap ish with the current engine to keep up with my class, i hate not winning and its only a matter of time that the others get used to their much

higher powered cars an blow me away!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

So from my understanding the xu10j4 is the 16v 2ltr xsi engine and the xu10j2 is the 8v 2ltr xsi engine

 

is there any difference in the blocks and internals of these 2 engines or is it purely in the head?

 

in other works if i removed the 8v head from the xu10j2 engine an stuck a 16v head on would in theory be matching the xu10j4 engine?

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

yes the j2 is 8v and j4 is 16, IE 2 or 4 relates to valves per cylinder.

In theory the bottom ends are the same however you do find internal differences between them such as oil sprayers under the pistons in the 16v lumps and different balances on the cranks etc. Nothing that makes much difference to a daily hack but certainley things to think about for race/track engines etc.

Not every 16v block has these extra goodies in and its usually a case of checking in the sump for signs of the extras.

All of them do have the better oil pumps and windage trays. Some of them have trapdoor sumps but again you dont know 100% until you look inside. Not all alloy sumps are trapdoor as some people say, there is one alloy sump that is shaped to the bel, housing of the box negating the need for the tin cover over the flywheel. Ive yet to find one of them sumps that isnt a trapdoor type. I have seen one tin sump with a trapdoor on a standard xu10j2 !

You can slap a 16v head on any of the xu10 bottom ends yes, all the xu10 bottom ends have the same oil ways and water ways etc. As said previously, the j2 isnt anything spectacular, but if its free then you have got a good base for building on. I would sell the head on as it can be used for a turbo conversion or to replace a gti head etc. Then you can start to work on the bottom end ready for a 16v head. options include restroking for 2045cc or higher, increasing the compression ratio or changing the pistons for different compression ratios as well as the usual lightening and balancing etc. You should also find the xu10 will come with a flywheel that accepts the 215mm clutch rather than the gti's 200mm clutch. Better for higher power outputs, the mi16 clucth is the best one to use here if you have a be3 box.

xu10j4r is the .0 16v 135bhp xsi then theres s16 and gti-6 engines. I wont quote their codes as I always get them the wrong way around