Suspension Setup

[dirtdog 4]

Hi. I own a STDT and been reading up recently about TB/ARB and spring comparisons. I couldn't belive my eyes when I saw the measurements for my current setup!!

 

I've tried to read up and do a lot of the thinking myself but I'm just wondering if anyone could give me any advice on the following??

 

 

Already fitted some Gaz adjustable(damper?) front and rear which has made a nice diffrence. A lot less body roll. I'm planning on using a 21mmTB and 23mmARB. After a good read up I realise the eibach springs are a good match. 185lbs I belive? But I got to thinking because I've got a big heavy lump in the front, prehaps I should get 225lbs to even it out a bit better?

 

I want to lower the Car at the same time but not sure on how low to go really, so here is a picture of it. Please note the back end is now raised about 20mm more since this picture..(no word of a lie) from stripping it out. I'm thinking maybe 40mm front and rear to match..?

 

 

Thanks

Edited September 17, 2008 by dirtdog

[Anthony 1,003]

What are you aiming to achieve at the end of these mods - what are you planning on using the car for, as an STDT isn't really an trackday toy?

 

I found that my old STDT was pretty reasonable with a 1.6 GTi rear beam (ie 19mm torsion and anti-roll bars) and GTi front springs (which lower it about 25mm too). The other thing was that even with that modest setup, if you started chucking the car around with less than half a tank of diesel you could get fuel surge on it - which is a complete PITA frankly as if it didn't clear itself you'd stop at the side of the road and have to rebleed the fuel system before it would start *sigh*

[jimistdt 1]

Hi Gary, What did you find were the Spring rates for the STDT in standard guise? The ones you are suggesting seem very high to me I thought you might be lookin at something a bit closer to 120lb?

 

jimi

[dirtdog 4]

well no, your right. it's not a track car but I got horrendous tyre wear on the outside of the front tyres from cornering..the entire tyre was fine and pretty much just ate the wall so I fitted the gaz shocks.

Really speaking I just want it feeling nice and planted to the road. Living in wales theres plenty of country roads which to be honest..is the only place it really gets driven. It'll never see a track. I like the firmness of the car but still isn't firm enough up front for me so thought about the harder springs...but then I cant leave the rear out of the equation so..don't know what to do really.

 

I really don't think it'll get throw around like some people here would throw their track toys around so I'm hoping that fuel surge wont be a problem with road use

[dirtdog 4]

hi jimi, i don't know what the standard STDT spring rates are like. I would have thought a bit stiffer or maybe even the same as GTi ones?

[jackherer 543]

it's not a track car but I got horrendous tyre wear on the outside of the front tyres from cornering..

 

Negative camber helps with that, easiest way to achieve it is to fit 309 wishbones.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

hi jimi, i don't know what the standard STDT spring rates are like. I would have thought a bit stiffer or maybe even the same as GTi ones?

They are softer, iirc when I removed the front springs from my STDT to fit the GTi ones they were the same free length as the standard 205 diesel ones from my previous car. (massive, about 40cm's)

 

Fitting standard GTi springs (or 309 GTi ones like I have on mine) on standard spec Bilstein front shocks made a good mix for back road use around here without loosing to much ride comfort with GTi bars but I messed around with 20mm & 22mm arb's to no detrimental change in ride comfort or road holding on bumpy roads but I wouldn't bother with 21 /23 mm mix for an STDT.

 

Graham.

[dirtdog 4]

ok, thanks for the replys!

 

so..basically i'm best off with a GTi spec beam, 19mm arb and tb? and then use 309 springs? I'll fit some group N top rubbers for a bit more firmness aswell prehaps

 

I assume i'll gain a bit of negative camber from lowering (I'm not sure how much though?) If I can't gain much then i'll read into the 309 wishbones

 

As you can see from the picture, it's like it's a 4x4. What's a sensible drop? I hear a lot of people going for the 25mm springs but I think mine would still look too high

 

Thanks again everyone

[Anthony 1,003]

As you can see from the picture, it's like it's a 4x4. What's a sensible drop? I hear a lot of people going for the 25mm springs but I think mine would still look too high

Remember that lowering springs will be specified for GTi's, which are already lower than non-GTi's, and have a lighter engine than your derv - thus any lowering springs for a GTi will lower yours considerably more than the specified drop. As I said, in my experience, a pair of standard 205 GTi springs lowered my STDT by 25mm or so...

[dirtdog 4]

thanks anthony. i might just slam it (excuse my awesome 'paint' skills) instead. if i'll get problems as you say with fuel surges, then i'll be happy with a GTi spec beam for a bit of an upgrade. If I can't have performance..i'll have good looks

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

so..basically i'm best off with a GTi spec beam, 19mm arb and tb? and then use 309 springs? I'll fit some group N top rubbers for a bit more firmness aswell prehaps

Thats pretty much the setup I had on mine. Whether you are best off with the standard set up is impossible for us to say because we don't know how you drive or what the roads you use are like on a daily basis but from experience between us for an STDT there isn't any real point getting a beam with much higher spec than standard GTi with exception to possibly a thicker arb.

I assume i'll gain a bit of negative camber from lowering (I'm not sure how much though?) If I can't gain much then i'll read into the 309 wishbones

Just lowering the front won't give you any noticable difference in negative camber with standard wishbones & top mounts as nothing will have changed beside the body is sat lower. All the mounting points will be the same

 

If you have roads that are particularly bumpy, especially on corners then you don't want to lower the car to much because if the wishbones are sat sloping up towards the wheel on level ground you'll suffer from more bump steer than if they are level or angled down slightly.

 

Pictures of my STDT on 309 springs with group N rubbers are in this topic.

 

As Anthony says, GTi springs drop the STDT approx 25mm & you get approximately an extra 5-10mm with 309 springs but the group N rubber take 5mm off this as they don't compress like the original ones.

 

Graham.

[dirtdog 4]

Sorry to drag this out a bit, I just want to be sure about one or two things if that's alright

 

Gti spec it is then. I like the way yours is sitting in the pic but i'll probably lower mine a bit more because of the diffrent wheel size 14/15

 

I won't gain any noticeable camber?Ok I guess i'll have to get some 309 wishbones because I can't use better top mounts. Are they listed as "front control arm"s in GSF? £64 each.

 

Also because they are longer, won't they add more of an upward angle? Especially when it's lowered too? I've heard a few people talking about changing the drive shafts aswell which I'd like to avoid doing really (£££). On the plus side though i've heard good things about the handling/balance of the 309 front track. Is it advisable to have rear camber also?

 

Thanks again for the info guys, great help!!

[jimistdt 1]

Sorry to drag this out a bit, I just want to be sure about one or two things if that's alright

 

Gti spec it is then. I like the way yours is sitting in the pic but i'll probably lower mine a bit more because of the diffrent wheel size 14/15

 

I won't gain any noticeable camber?Ok I guess i'll have to get some 309 wishbones because I can't use better top mounts. Are they listed as "front control arm"s in GSF? £64 each.

 

Also because they are longer, won't they add more of an upward angle? Especially when it's lowered too? I've heard a few people talking about changing the drive shafts aswell which I'd like to avoid doing really (£££). On the plus side though i've heard good things about the handling/balance of the 309 front track. Is it advisable to have rear camber also?

 

Thanks again for the info guys, great help!!

 

Jord294 is stripping a 309 at the mo, he's a good lad, I've dealt with him before. Have a look on the For Sale Thread.

 

I'll let someone else tell you about the camber 'cause I don't know enough about it.

 

Jimi

[jackherer 543]

I won't gain any noticeable camber?Ok I guess i'll have to get some 309 wishbones because I can't use better top mounts. Are they listed as "front control arm"s in GSF? £64 each.

 

They are cheaper from buypartsby. However any non-genuine wishbones come with near useless inner bushes so you need to add a full set from Peugeot (about £20 for both sides).

[dirtdog 4]

I brushed the cobwebs and dust off the car and had a poke around yesterday and noticed my 'wishbones' are pointing downwards.

Can someone tell me, if I fit 309 wishbones and use my standard driveshafts then lower it about 40-45mm...will I have problems? I would have thought that using the longer wishbones then the angle would go more upwards..and then lowering the car would further increase the angle on the driveshaft etc? I don't want to be popping driveshafts every other week or killing wheel bearings or something. Cheers

[jimistdt 1]

The wishbones should be lower on the end where the wheel is than the inside, this gives you more control, if its the opposite you will suffer from bump steer, where you are always correcting the wheel to keep straight. IIRC.

 

Jimi

[dirtdog 4]

Thanks for that Jimi. I don't mind about bump steer, as I don't drive agressive on bumpy or unknown roads. I'm just concerned about the driveshafts popping out and eating bearings..although i'm not sure that it would happen, i'm curious as to if it would happen.

 

Also curious about tyre effects adding negative camber, would it transfer the wear from the outside of the tyre..onto the inside?

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Using 309 wishbones with 205 driveshafts is basically your choice, a few people have done it without any problems & some (well at least 1 or 2) have had them pop out. The angle of the wishbones or driveshafts shouldn't have any effect on the wear of the wheel bearing & using the longer driveshafts makes it so the joints are compressed into the sockets more so there is less chance of one end popping out but on a lowered car the risk is lessened anyway afaik.

 

Using 309 wishbones tends to even out the tyre wear, standard 205 arms feather the outer edge but with 309 arms the wear tends to be much more even. Tey will alter the angle of the wishbone but not by much because they aren't a great deal longer.

 

Graham.

[dirtdog 4]

thanks graham, exactly what I needed to know. Cheers!