Compbrake Arms Continued ..

[Spiky 37]

yeah, bit mad that,

 

 

only to have it thrown back in my face and i was 120% assured they would fit, yet i'm send my back to never come back

 

 

can you get a picture up of yours? as i think they are making different versions, yet steve at compbrake assures me he dont

 

yet why was the DEMO kit different to what we had?? weird huh!

 

 

i'm not happy about, and can only appligise to all those that are having issues with them

 

 

anyone got a set that fit that they want to sell??? pmsl

[TT205 42]

Well mine clearly do fit so it does make me wonder if the different types have been mixed up

 

Going back to the original thread, this was the list

 

1. Spiky PAID Leaving Monday

2. easypug

3. James_R Paid via direct contact Leaving Monday

4. VisaGTi16v PAID Due to leave next week

5. Stendp Paid Will leave midweek

6. Smighall PAID

7. 205TT Paid via direct contact Sent

8. smckeown PAID Will leave midweek

 

Looking at this mine were sent first therefore were they from another batch?

 

He said they fitted, you have pictures of them fitted, mine DO fit so something funny is going on

 

I'll get pictures up but don't have access to the car for a few days

 

It's in Tony's interest to get to the bottom of this, have you spoken to him?

 

Also from the above list - Did James_R have prob's too? he's mates with Miles isn't he - maybe ask what their experiences were

 

Dave

[Spiky 37]

jamesR sent his back as he changed his mine, though they never turned up at combrake????

 

i've spoken to tony and compbrake loads a times about this and steve at compbrake is adament they are ALL the same,

 

YET, you look at the pics of the demo set and they are completly different to the set i had

 

and when i mentioned that steve at compbrake said, no they are the same and are made in the way.

 

 

mine came with LH threads too and i sent them back

 

 

 

and the offical reason mine dont fit is steve says my car is bent at the front and my subframe has be rewelded, hence my thread about the subframe welds

[Spiky 37]

.

 

and to add

 

if you put pictures up and they are different, i wont be fooking happy,

 

please measure the the RJ's too as i believe this is part of the issue

 

as i think he has beef'd up the RJ's which in turn moved the arm outwards

[VisaGTi16v 1]

Only fitted mine last weekend but I have removed the arb anyway. There was no chance of the rear one clearing the arb however. I also got sent the wrong threaded RJ's originally which they were apologetic for but then wouldnt send me nuts for the correct ones presumably due to clearance issues and I could mention the top mounts I got with a washer missing which was then sent but was the wrong size so I got my work to modify them as I gave up with them at that point.....

[projectpug 0]

I think have the problem is they were designed for cars without ARB definately my set was. Then Steve said to run no nuts on the inner R/J so i did and had them wound in all the way however i found it still had play it the arm this way and a lack of neggy camber. I believe there are 2 sets Spiky i recall Steve saying mine were more beefed up that was his words over your arms and hence why they didnt fit.

 

Spiky let me know how you get on with a refund. Did you ring him first or just return them with a letter/not ?

[Spiky 37]

i still have my arms but will send them back soon, but i'm gettin my refund via tony, but only as i been speaking to him about something else

 

i'll let you know how it goes

[Chris H 10]

I've got a set of these for sale whcih came off my 205 rally car. It had the std ARB modified to clear the arms and it all fitted fine.

[Spiky 37]

what did you modify?

[Grahamrally 0]

Phil (Projectpug), you should have come to me before you bought the Compbrake r/j arms!!

 

I really must add a few things to this post that we've learned through rallying a 205 with r/j arms and from general engineering practice, (I'm still learning on a Performance Car Engineering degree). The way in which we use r/j's in modern motorsport components is appauling.

 

Excuse me diverting off original topic slightly, but;

 

The load that a wishbone is put through can be very diverse, from braking g-forces up to 3g, to acceleration up to 1g force and lateral forces as well, possibly clouting kerbs and pot holes in my case in my rally car. This means that the point on the wishbone that receives the most stress is the ball joint end that fits into the hub!

 

R/j's should never really be used on the end of wishbones, in any circumstance, if you want the bones to take lots of force and stress. The main issue being the fatigue stress put on the threads through constant vibration. Bearing in mind the first few threads of a bolt take 95% of the loading on that bolt.

The second issue is even though the actual r/j is incredibly strong, the threaded part to it isn't anywhere near as strong.

 

If you have an M10 r/j, you are effectively relying on an ONE M10 bolt to hold the hub to the wishbone. Worried yet? Well, the further out you wind them, the bigger the bending moment will be on that threaded area.

 

Whats the solution? Don't abuse them, replace r/j's very regularly, don't use r/j's?? lol

 

It's not all bad, they have been using them on race and rally cars up to national level for years, so I know you'll ask, 'why would they sell them if they weren't capable'. You tell me? If you look at all the world rally cars built to an excellent engineering level, you will see they use spherical bearings instead. Spherical bearings are just the r/j minus the threaded bit.

 

Believe me I know how good and bad r/j's can be, they're great for ease of adjustment camber/castor wise, but, I managed to brake an M20 r/j hitting a kerb quite hard at about 40mph, the original wishbone would have taken this hit with ease, perhaps bending the steering arm, but allowing me to continue to the end of the rally.

 

The up-shot of this is that I'm now looking into converting standard wishbones, (which are very well engineered in strength), into spherical jointed camber adjustable. Using the suspension mounts on the car for adjustment with shims. This is actually a very well used method in very high engineered cars.

 

I'm also going to start making wishbones where the inside joints are r/j'ted, (at least then it's relying on 2x M12 threaded joints), and the outside a spherical bearing, (you'll never break that end).

 

Back to the original point, compbrake have a good design for the main part of the wishbone, but there's a much better way of doing things when it comes to r/jing the ends, so bear that in mind when purchasing these items.

 

BTW i'm not a business, but for people that want one of the above solutions, contact me and I'll try and get some made up for you guys.

 

P.S, sorry about the long post Phil!

 

Graham

Edited September 14, 2008 by Grahamrally

[TT205 42]

So does this offer any camber/castor adjustment? - if so what is the range?

Cheers

 

Dave

[Spiky 37]

grahamrally i guess you mean like this

 

[Grahamrally 0]

grahamrally i guess you mean like this

 

 

Yes a lot like that, but hopefully a bit neater and built very much to a clubman budget, (no offence if they're arms you've made, they're on the right engineering lines). I don't believe that club level competitors have the budget to setup the castor and camber efficiently enough to make use of something that complicated and potentially something a lot weaker than what I have in mind.

 

That wishbone still has a weak point where the threaded area is on the caster adjuster.

 

TT205: It's camber adjustable and to an extent castor adsjustable using the inside r/js. The ultimate wishbones would be spherical bearings all round, which again would be camber adjustable using shims behind the mounts on the subframe. However that involves cutting the mounts off and replacing them. Which I'm only intending to do on my car. But if people express enough interest I might release plans on how to do this.

 

Graham

[Spiky 37]

what do yours look like?

 

i not made these, but i will be m making a set similar to these

[Sandy 191]

You're getting close to Colin Satchell's set up! Which incorporates solutions to all the weaknesses discussed and also addresses the geometric deficiencies of lowering.

[Spiky 37]

You're getting close to Colin Satchell's set up! Which incorporates solutions to all the weaknesses discussed and also addresses the geometric deficiencies of lowering.

 

 

sandy, was you referring to me or graham?

[Powers 13]

"That wishbone still has a weak point where the threaded area is on the caster adjuster"

 

I agree however I have seen ones that have a weaker point in that particular area;

 

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/krs-competitio..._A_ou_F2000.jpg

 

Those wishbones are manufactured by someone who knows what they are doing!

 

These are of far better design in my opinion;

 

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/krs-competitio..._306__F2000.JPG

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/krs-competition/Triangle_306.JPG

 

If you look they do incorporate an external rose joint.

[James_R 3]

Thought I'd post up in this, I didn't even bother fitting these to the car after seeing them in the metal and having a chat with Miles,

 

The major factor for not touching them was the angle the BBJ made with the bottom of the hub with the ride height the car is at, I considered the RJ would be on the end of its range, and if I had an impact then bang and no more fun. Added to that I wasn't happy that you had to do any finishing work on the items apart from straight up assemble for what just chasing out the threads when they're back from paint/powder coat?

 

I'm not saying they wouldn't work for other applications as rally cars tend to run higher ground clearances.

 

I did send them back and the Ecc top mounts I had, and they indeed never arrived back with Compbrake. I had been refunded before they had arrived back with compbrake through good faith and kept in touch with tony regularly on the situation and resolved it with him, no bad feelings either side and we were both left out of pocket for it, I did offer to pay the full out standing amount, but Tony wouldn't let me he wanted to cover costs lost only, which is very decent of him.

 

I'm currently on 309 bones and MED ecc top mounts and aiming at 4.5deg camber on the nose with as much castor as I can get with that, but would rather set for max caster and get 4.5deg through longer wishbones.

[Spiky 37]

can i see a pic of your top mounts?

[James_R 3]

They...er look like pretty standard Ecc top mount round thing offset hole, the same as compbrake ones in appearance, just a slight raided bit where the hole in the turret top is and closer tolerance sepherical in it. or you collecting pictures stuff?

[Spiky 37]

no, i just assumed they were of a different design type, if better than what i got, i may change

[James_R 3]

The alloy bit not really, the spherical definately, just order a better one when you renew them end of the year, get a GKN catalogue and just find what you have and order a decent one job done

[Spiky 37]

if i get a different design i may go for something like this

 

[Grahamrally 0]

James_R, how come you need so much camber? i'm really sure you'd never even come close to using it. Unless your tyres are designed to run with it or the car leans that much?

 

Graham

[Spiky 37]

graham

 

where are the pics of your arms?