Highest Cc In A Xu9 Block

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Yes,

 

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

 

would it be worth me getting the rods or pistons for this crank too?! i assume the pistons will be no good as they are diesel related pistons?!

 

what do you think?!

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

would it be worth me getting the rods or pistons for this crank too?! i assume the pistons will be no good as they are diesel related pistons?!

 

what do you think?!

 

No, you should only get the crank as pistons and rods are very heavy, and also they sit in a block that's 15mm taller than the alloy block!

 

Which basicly means you need at least either custom rods or pistons.

I'm tempted to say custom rods is the best option, to get the rod crank located/centrered.

 

The big end on XU11D and XU10J4TE is 26mm compared to 24mm wide on the others.

 

So whatever pistons with the right bore, manily 1.9 Mi16 or 1.8 16v I would guess is your options, then custom ordered rods to make it all fit.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

So if i was to attempt fitting a 92mm crank in a xu9 with standard xu9 rods an pistons what would i need to do to make work? Would i need to send the pistons off to get them skimmed down to accomodate the extra stroke, i have spare xu9 pistons rods in a spare block i can play with??

[welshpug 1,661]

So if i was to attempt fitting a 92mm crank in a xu9 with standard xu9 rods an pistons what would i need to do to make work? Would i need to send the pistons off to get them skimmed down to accomodate the extra stroke, i have spare xu9 pistons rods in a spare block i can play with??

 

 

you need shorter rods to accommodate the 92mm throw of the crank (2mm shorter if using the XU9 pistons) I doubt you could remove 2mm from the pistons, though I'm sure others can advise

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

i keep readin that the 205 XU9 cranks are 83mm

 

is it 83 or 88mm?!

The XU9 crank is 88m, bore on all allopy block wet linered XU's is 83mm.

 

Quick question, which model 205 is the xud7 block in? This is the 1.9 diesel 205 isn't it?

XUD7 is the normal & turbo diesel engines found in most 205's. The 1.9 diesel is the XUD9 which was more commonly found in the 405, 306 etc.

 

Graham.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

you need shorter rods to accommodate the 92mm throw of the crank (2mm shorter if using the XU9 pistons) I doubt you could remove 2mm from the pistons, though I'm sure others can advise

 

 

so by the sounds of that it is possible then, a 92mm crank in a XU9 block with XU9 pistons and shorter rods

 

ok so im not very good on this but as said above the XUD11 crank which i will be fitting is 26mm big end whereas others including XU9 are 24mm so could i not use the XU9 rods and have the big end end of the rod opened up to 26mm to fit the crank thus giving me that extra 2mm i need?!

 

please correct me if im wrong as i dont really know how its all done but just thinkin how to work it?!

 

does anyone whats the max that can be taken from the XU9 pistons?!

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

so by the sounds of that it is possible then, a 92mm crank in a XU9 block with XU9 pistons and shorter rods

 

ok so im not very good on this but as said above the XUD11 crank which i will be fitting is 26mm big end whereas others including XU9 are 24mm so could i not use the XU9 rods and have the big end end of the rod opened up to 26mm to fit the crank thus giving me that extra 2mm i need?!

 

please correct me if im wrong as i dont really know how its all done but just thinkin how to work it?!

 

does anyone whats the max that can be taken from the XU9 pistons?!

 

No the 26mm and 24mm is the width of the rod journal, both crank journals have 50mm diameter.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Ok thanx for the info mate, a great help, so my choices are:

 

1. Get custom 2 mm shorter rods to go with the standard pistons

 

or

 

2. Find out if standard xu9 pistons can have a 2mm skim off the top plus any dish to accomodate a 16v head

 

hopefully someone can help, thanx

[Mandic 0]

Again....std rods wont go on 92mm crank as the crank has 2mm wider journals.

 

So the only way to put 92mm crank in is to get custom rods. Would be cheaper and better if You take iron block and throw 88mm crank in.

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Again....std rods wont go on 92mm crank as the crank has 2mm wider journals.

 

So the only way to put 92mm crank in is to get custom rods. Would be cheaper and better if You take iron block and throw 88mm crank in.

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

 

Actually 1.9 Mi16 rods are piston located hence zero clearance on piston end, and end-float on the big end.

But this is believed to be much of the reason for the 1.9 Mi16's oil surge problems though.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Might be worth comparing how much the piston skim will cost versus forged pistons (which may be lighter giving less moving mass which has its own benefits) which have had the gudgeon pin height adjusted to suit the physical build AND the CR you want to achieve.

 

Just an idea, but you'll be looking at around £600 BTW. But everyone is right; the iron block gives far more options, and the increase in power will easily outweigh the 23kg weight difference.

 

Be good to see what you can do though. There may even be another manufacturer's standard piston that meets the forged spec you need, so I'd measure twice and pay once if I were you.

[Mandic 0]

Actually 1.9 Mi16 rods are piston located hence zero clearance on piston end, and end-float on the big end.

But this is believed to be much of the reason for the 1.9 Mi16's oil surge problems though.

 

Yeah I know, that's why I said it wont fit, as it would make matters even worse IMO.

 

Even if it will theoretically fit there are other problems. He will need to skim pistons, so this means taking the head off, so he'll have potential liner protrusion problems, low R/S, maybe more oil surge problems, ...

 

I think it's easier to source out iron block than 2.1TD crank. He already has 88mm crank and fitting that one into iron block would result in much more reliable and easier to build engine than if he takes 2.1TD crank and puts it into alu block.

 

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

Edited September 10, 2008 by Mandic

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I would prefer iron block but its jus sourcing one an gettin it to me in guernsey which is why i was tryin to work with what i have!

 

What cc would i get with fitting the xu9 crank in the xud7 block an would it need anythin else like custom pistons an rods again or is it a simple swap an go?

 

Anyone got one?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

XUD7 is the normal & turbo diesel engines found in most 205's. The 1.9 diesel is the XUD9 which was more commonly found in the 405, 306 etc.

 

Graham.

 

Hang on im gettin confused now, originally a while ago i was told the XUD9 was the block to go for from a 205 Diesel but now im under the understanding that this block wasnt in the 205, it was the XUD7 in the 205 Diesels?!

 

sorry just wanting to make sure im trying to source the right block for my build

 

thanx

simon

[NNN 1]

I wouldn´t use a 92mm crank with even shorter rods than the std ones. The stroke/rod ratio would be even lower than the original which I believe is low enough already. Low S/R ratio improves friction loses (side load) and piston acceleration, stressing the rods even further.

I´ll go for the iron block instead.

 

Nico.-

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Hang on im gettin confused now, originally a while ago i was told the XUD9 was the block to go for from a 205 Diesel but now im under the understanding that this block wasnt in the 205, it was the XUD7 in the 205 Diesels?!

The XUD9 was fitted into 205's according to various soruces including Autodata but I've personally never seen one. The most common engine fitted to the 205 diesel was the XU7 either n/a or turbo'd.

 

What cc would i get with fitting the xu9 crank in the xud7 block?

The same cc as the XUD7, 1769cc. Its the bore thats different between the two not the stroke. (80mm or 83mm bore).

 

Graham.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Ah ok thanx for clearin that up graham!

 

the only reason i wanna source a xud7 or xud9 block is so that i can increase the cc of the engine over 1.9 so which one would be more suitable?

 

i will already have the internals from a xu7 XS engine which i can build into my alu xu9 block to make 1769 or whatever if i choose to go that

 

i jus wanna source a iron block as i would prefer to stay in the higher class for my hillclimbs so will buy a 92mm crank an go from there

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Just bare in mind Wardy that there are always pros & cons.

 

The iron block route gives you much more flexibility but you are walking into 2 issues, 1 of which I'm sure you know about:

 

1) Extra weight - but that's really unavoidable & you'll create more power to overcome it (& perhaps shed some weight elsewhere....eg stop eating pies!)

 

2) The extra height of the block (11mm IIRC) gives you potential manifold/downpipe/bulkhead & master cylinder clearance issues.

 

Glad to see you're experimenting. For £2,200 BTW you can have 2187cc .

Edited September 11, 2008 by DrSarty

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Where can i get one for £2200? Do you have one already done is it?

 

pies have been out the window for a few months now an lost a stone already, with training aswel obviously, happy days, much more to go yet!

Edited September 11, 2008 by wardy18

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Afaik the XU9D and XU7D block you are talking about are iron blocks anyway, so why are you bothering about them if you don't wanna use a XU10?

Can't see the logic.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I want an iron block, but it has to be one that has been fitted to a 205 model to meet the MSA regs so this leaves me with xud7 and xud9! Cannot use xu10 as it was never fitted as standard to any 205 model otherwise this would have been my first choice!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I want an iron block, but it has to be one that has been fitted to a 205 model to meet the MSA regs so this leaves me with xud7 and xud9! Cannot use xu10 as it was never fitted as standard to any 205 model otherwise this would have been my first choice!

 

Aaaah...the penny drops. I don't think you ever mentioned any rules stipulating what you can & can't use, and frankly I CBA to read through again.

 

Well £2,200 was QEP's price for building my engine: head work, source, supply and modify pistons and rods, balance crank, lighten & balance flywheel, bore (& deck?) block & full assembly to include supplied parts like extended oil pump, sump spacer, baffled sump & also fit new (bought in) water pump & cam belt.

 

If you have money to spare - which you WILL need BTW - surely a T16 engine fits the bill.

Edited September 11, 2008 by DrSarty

[welshpug 1,661]

If you have money to spare - which you WILL need BTW - surely a T16 engine fits the bill.

 

you'd be very hard pushed to find the 1.8 XU turbo 16, and it'd be stretching the rules as far as they can go if they do let you in with it!!

[projectpug 0]

Dont they exclude homologation cars?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Come again....? Whats that?