Mungrel Engine Would It Work?

[weejimmy 1]

if i were to build an engine from a

 

mi16 block

gti-6 head

2.1 td crank (96mm stroke i think and forged)

forged rods

forged pistons

 

would they all work together?

 

or is there any beter options for any of them,

 

just in theory untill i find out what i actualy have in my engine

[welshpug 1,662]

should work together well if the pistons and rods are matches and designed well.

[James_R 3]

you'd get 2077cc @83mm bore up to 2128cc @84mm bore.

 

 

be very over stroked, but would work, that's alot of cash for what?? a specific race class??

[weejimmy 1]

no. actauly i thought it would be cheap

mi block £50

gti-6 head £100

crank £30

just rods, pistons,turbo and managment be expensive but id have to buy that anyway..

[welshpug 1,662]

which Mi block are you going to use?

[weejimmy 1]

alloy mi block

to use 86 - 88mm pistons would that require a diffrent block?

and which one? any alloy ones? or just gti-6 / diesel etc

Edited August 26, 2008 by weejimmy

[James_R 3]

You'd be looking at a XU10 block for 86-88mm pistons and 83-84 (although 86 can go in) Mi blocks.

 

If it's for capacity then XU10 all the way. that said looking at the supercharged 6's the low boost versions making 250BHP on std compression why bother, or get a bogo 2L engine and put 6 cams in and turbo, when it melts new bogo 2L engine, nice and cheap that way.

[weejimmy 1]

whats th xu10?

 

i dont follow all the xu10j4r stuff i just call it gti-6 / mi s16 etc sory

 

would be happy to sacrifice capasity for the weight of the alloy block so keep it down to 84. i take it 86 is pushing the limits a bit on the mi?

[James_R 3]

To put 86mm pistons in the Alloy block is special liner territory and then it's 1k+ for the block work and liners

 

If it's a plan to keep it cheap then 83mm would be "safe"

 

All sounds like fun though

[weejimmy 1]

sweet

well hopfully ill take my engine apart to find t16 internals (its suposed to be) and just leav it at that but if its not iat least i know which bits to start salvaging

[danpug 1]

How much power are you actually looking for? Being a turbo you won't need a crazy spec for silly power.

[weejimmy 1]

well just what ever it puts out realy not chasing a bhp figure so to speak.

be looking over 300 at least but nothing specific

[guffe 2]

There is quite a big difference in "over 300", is it 310 or 390. Going for forged pistons + rods on 83mm bore with 96mm destroys the budget as you probably must go for custom parts.

 

300('ish) bhp should/could be capable with stock rods but the limit is quite near there. I'm in the process of ordering custom Crower rods for my engine, just for the peace of mind that they are new and capable of handling the power I'm after. This piece of mind also comes with a hefty price tag...

 

Anyways, you probably should make your mind what kind of power level you are going after and how long you want your engine last with that power. Standard Mi16 maybe can take 500 bhp for a millisecond...

Edited August 27, 2008 by guffe

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

The 2.1TD crank you are planning using is 92mm stroke and not 96mm as mentioned in the first post.

I would never build the alloy block like this, it's shorter too so you get a crippled rod/stroke ratio too.

 

Std Mi16: 143mm rods 88mm stoke, R/S = 1.625

Stroker 92mm crank.. well say 141mm rods, R/S = 1.53

 

Not a big deal as it would probably work, but the taller iron block is a better choice for stroker engines if you ask me.

 

I'm running 1.65 R/S on a 2.3 iron block with 94.5mm stoke.

[weejimmy 1]

what would you recomend to keep the alloy block then?

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

what would you recomend to keep the alloy block then?

 

Well maybe get some 85mm liners and pistons, don't remember who makes them anymore though.

 

With that said, using shorter pistons (pin height) you can still probably use 145mm rods on the alloy block too and stay close to 1.6 R/S even with 92mm crank.

 

But the iron block will just be a stronger and more realible alternative.

[welshpug 1,662]

could use XU7 pistons, they are quite a bit shorter than the Mi ones.

[guffe 2]

XU7JP4 pistons compression height is 33.3mm, as Mi is (correct me if I'm wrong) 37.5mm

 

Found something interresting to read, regarding to the rod/stroke -ratio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-stroke#Output_limit

Edited August 27, 2008 by guffe

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Your choice of application has never been mentioned, regardless of what power you want or expect to get.

 

With any engineering project - and believe me this IS a project that WILL start costing healthy amounts of dosh - you must agree with what you're making the item for and what you need it to do. Are you going to track/race it, rally it, hill climb it or just have a fast road car? If the latter, sod the 23kg or so the XU10 iron block has over the alloy Mi (1.9L) block, because it's not that important, particularly as after your intitial spec you mention forced induction.

 

The iron block gives you s*it loads more options, less initial cost if you want to 'rebore' and better reliability I would say.

 

You seriously need to plan: budget, use, limits & components.

 

This is not criticism, it's sound advice.

 

Now I've done a lot myself and seen so many other projects and methods, I doubt there's much you could do that hasn't been done before on here.

 

I like most others will be delighted to help, answer questions and advise, but I think you ought to guide us on the use for the car and your budget first my friend.

[weejimmy 1]

thats ok it dosent come accross as criticism.

 

just a track car mainly poss fast road at time to time,

thing is ive driven lots on 205s and i realy do prefer the alloy block on handeling terms.

 

id rather go with alloy block standerd liners and smaler pistons than go to steel block and bigger pistons,

i know theres no substitute for cc,s and all that but i want to build a engine im happy with,

 

but again i will wait to see what i have internals wise first then go from there,

oh and its a steel block i have just now anyway .

 

i want to use mainly standerd parts apart from the rods / pistons, althoe may use t16 rods if i have them. so if i bugger a head etc i can just stick another gti-6 one on etc not have to re do ports etc,

but i accept theres no real standerd pistons that will take the punishment. (i presume).

[weejimmy 1]

oh and budget im not shure

i have a tendecy to not stick to budgets anyway,

 

but hopping for managment, rods,pistons £whatever they cost

rest of engine not to expensive as mostly standerd parts

 

 

one other question would be what cams? gti-6 ok or is there beter pug ones,

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

oh and budget im not shure

i have a tendecy to not stick to budgets anyway,

 

but hopping for managment, rods,pistons £whatever they cost

rest of engine not to expensive as mostly standerd parts

 

 

one other question would be what cams? gti-6 ok or is there beter pug ones,

 

Well 405 T16 rods are from a XU 10 block and will in most cases, at least with a stroker crank be too long in a alloy block anyway.