Rwd V6 Conversion Musings

[M@tt 77]

Again too much time bored at work has got me thinking about my upcoming V6 project.

 

Now just for arguments sake just say i went a bit mental and tried to fit the engine in the back of the 205 i've got a few questions people might be able to help with

 

From a practical point of view if i were able to get the front of a 406 from a scrapper anyone know whether it's likely to fit in the back of the 205, similar style to cyberncks project. I'm thinking the 406 is probably wider but i'm not sure by how much, or would it be better trying to spaceframe the rear.

 

If i were to do it i'd want it to be road legit so from a legal point of view if such a drastic change was made to the car where would it stand in terms of MOT would it then be classed as a kit car and need a SVA test?

 

Also if i used the front running gear from a 406 ie subframe suspension hubs etc any suggestions as to what i could do about a handbrake as i believe its a road legal requirement to have mechanical handbrake

 

cheers for any replies and humouring my ridiculous ideas

[welshpug 1,657]

exactly what you've pondered has been done in a 106

 

well, done as in the engine and suspension is all in, but I haven't seen any updates on the bodywork for months! I think the last I saw was a turbo being offered up...

 

 

for the handbrake, I would imagine you could use Citroen Xantia XM or BX front calipers with new seals (all 3 vehicles have handbrakes on the front wheels)

 

not sure on the MOT legalities, ask Z-cars about it maybe? as they do a spaceframe kit to fit a CTR engine into a saxo IIRC.

[M@tt 77]

aye i've been looking at that matts 106 build photo diary which has compounded my ludicrous project thoughts

 

http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mat106/My%20Baby/

[Batfink 201]

why do you want to use a 406 front end? People have only done that because they want to run a wider track width. Surely you are better off just using a 205 donor?

[M@tt 77]

i thought it might make things easier if i could use the 406 engine bay standard engine mounting points and subframe rather than using a 205 and having to additionally hack subframe and fashion a engine mount driveshafts etc. Granted in the scheme of things it's probably only a minor part of the actually trying to rebuild the rear end of a car but anything that would make things easier would be a plus!

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

is this for the dimma then matt?

 

surley the extra girth at the back of it would be good

[welshpug 1,657]

I don't think the extra width was a consideration at all in the use of a 406 engine bay, purely down to having a subframe and engine mounts all perfectly placed to house the engine.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

I don't think the extra width was a consideration at all in the use of a 406 engine bay, purely down to having a subframe and engine mounts all perfectly placed to house the engine.

 

he best consider considering them

 

surely using the hole 406 front end including suspension,shafts the lot would be the easiest option then youve got less customness about it and less messing with suspension geometry etc. which is difinetley a bonus when your building it on a sloped coble drive

[M@tt 77]

i'm plannign on buildign a car port on the front of my Shed so at least i'll have a flat covered area to work under, but it will still have gravel to that'll still make wheeling things about interesting

 

although if the 406 has a wider track i'm not sure if thats a good thing as dimma wheels sit perfectly under the wide arches as it is with the 205 beam, so i don't think i'd want them pushed out any further.

 

can anyone confirm whether 406 wishbones are interchangable with 205 ones? just thinking if they are then i could perhaps use say 205 wishbones (assuming they are shorter) and eccentric top mounts to keep the width roughly to 205 dimensions and still allow accurate wheel geometrysetting using the adjustable top mounts. I've got a feeling 406 wishbones aren't going to be the same though ...off to look at servicebox

[welshpug 1,657]

the main reason Dimma wheels sit nicely in the arch on a 205 beam is the Offset Matt, use a more "normal" offset with a 406 track width and they'll be fairly close I would imagine!

[M@tt 77]

I've got some proper original dimma split rims on the car at the moment which i'll be keeping so i need someway of keeping the 205 beam width whilst hopefully utilising the 406 front end and subframe

 

I've just looked on SB and the wishbones are completely different so a direct replacement with 205 ones is a no go, however they are quite a simple design so it might be possible to redrill the balljoint hole slightly further up the arm and again use eccentric top mounts to pull the track width in to 205 proportions. However i'm not sure whether this would upset handling greatly as you would have shorter wishbones and therefore may have less travel?? also i'm thinking if you use the 406 subframe etc but pull the track in then the ARB isn't going to fit properly onto the hubs/droplinks either is it :S bugger!! this is getting more complicated the more ithink about it

Edited August 20, 2008 by M@tt

[Paintguy 0]

Nice idea

 

The longer the better for wishbones really, as they'll give less camber change over their range of movement.

 

I haven't seen any Dimma wheels up close, but depending on how they are made up, could you split the 3 pieces, and swap the inner and outer rim sections around to produce a more favourable offset?

 

Just trying to throw a few ideas up, as you clearly have too much time to ponder over these things

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

.....which is definitly a bonus when your building it on a sloped coble drive

PMSL. Moving stuff on there is an experience!!

 

I haven't seen any Dimma wheels up close, but depending on how they are made up, could you split the 3 pieces, and swap the inner and outer rim sections around to produce a more favourable offset?

That is exactly how they are. The 309 Dimma's came with even wider rear dishes that 205's, however the 4x4 one was much shallower on the outer and wider on the inner. I think my brother has some spare rims that would help them fit more factory style.

 

The advantage to using the front of a 406 would be there is less engineering to get the correct angles, strength, flex and geometry for the engine. The easiest solution is the arse end of a Clio V6 isn't it? Not as common as a 406 though!

 

It is only a matter of time until the twin V6 idea materialises! You should have had the other V6 you accidentally won!

[applemobile 0]

just another idea, i was thinking more the V6 + entire subframe from a CLIO V6, then you have everything there, its just a case of rebuilding the shell to fit the subframe??