Help - Mi Conversion Finished But Misfiring/cutting Out When Hot

[mat1227 1]

Quick question on the above if I may, I've asked the local pug dealer for a blue ECU temp sensor via email (as per recommendations on thread) - they don't seem to know what I'm talking about and have sent me the attached file and asked me to indicate the part I'm after.

 

Can someone have a look and let me know which one I should be asking for, I just wanted to check it's the correct one I'm getting?

 

Sorry this is all fairly new to me and I don't want to get the part, travel 60 miles to fit it and find it's the wrong one much obliged

 

Mat

mat_405_mi16.doc

[pug309twin40s 1]

Quick question on the above if I may, I've asked the local pug dealer for a blue ECU temp sensor via email (as per recommendations on thread) - they don't seem to know what I'm talking about and have sent me the attached file and asked me to indicate the part I'm after.

 

Can someone have a look and let me know which one I should be asking for, I just wanted to check it's the correct one I'm getting?

 

Sorry this is all fairly new to me and I don't want to get the part, travel 60 miles to fit it and find it's the wrong one much obliged

 

Mat

 

 

number 13: part number 24246

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I think its item 13 but you don't have to get them from Peugeot.

 

AFAIK they can be bought from GSF.

 

Graham.

[welshpug 1,657]

if its 0242 46 its the same as the 8v.

 

Bosch part number 0280 130 026, GSF do them as Graham mentioned.

[mat1227 1]

Fantastic thanks everyone. I'll go with GSF, much easier

 

Hopefully that'll fix it

 

Mat

[mat1227 1]

number 13: part number 24246

 

..and don't you roll your eyes at me Paul you cheeky b*stard

 

[Anthony 1,003]

GSF part number is B93490 btw - £10+VAT last time I bought one

[mat1227 1]

Ah excellent cheers Anthony that'll speed things along.

 

Much obliged

[philfingers 5]

In my experience it won't be fuel anyway. I've got a car that still starts and runs with 2 yr old fuel and my bikes lay over the winter too and always run ok with old fuel until they get the first fill of the new season.

Certainly the std 8v won't run with a bad ECT (Engine Coolant Temp sensor) or if it's disconnected. Before you chnage run it until the point where it won't start/ run. Then leave it a little while to cool a bit. Spin it over again (hopefully it won't start). Then pull a plug or two. If it's overfueling (which it would do if it had an ECT problem) then the plugs will be wet with fuel. If the plugs are dry then it could be a fuel pump relay or related issue.

One of the easiest things would be to get another car that's running and swap the bits one by one.

Did I read you'd fitted a new igntion amp? If so there was a thread not so long back which proved how bad the pattern ones were. Could it be that if it's so bad it won't run at all when hot?

Could try swapping the ECU. Doesn't sound like an earth problem. Does it start ok from stone cold? ECT should make it run rich when it's cold and the resistance changes as it warms up which indicates to the ECU to lean off on the mixture etc

[mat1227 1]

In my experience it won't be fuel anyway. I've got a car that still starts and runs with 2 yr old fuel and my bikes lay over the winter too and always run ok with old fuel until they get the first fill of the new season. This is weird, as basically with the year old fuel it wouldn't run or start at all: I drained the tank as far as I could, put 15L of fresh unleaded in and it started perfectly, ran for 10 min and only had problems once up to temp

Certainly the std 8v won't run with a bad ECT (Engine Coolant Temp sensor) or if it's disconnected. Before you chnage run it until the point where it won't start/ run. Then leave it a little while to cool a bit. Spin it over again (hopefully it won't start). Then pull a plug or two. If it's overfueling (which it would do if it had an ECT problem) then the plugs will be wet with fuel. If the plugs are dry then it could be a fuel pump relay or related issue. This is helpful and definitely sounds like it's worth trying, only issue is I then have to wait another week or two to source the part and find time to pop back to fit it (as outlined below) - it's getting frustrating. If it was on my drive it'd be fine

One of the easiest things would be to get another car that's running and swap the bits one by one.

Did I read you'd fitted a new igntion amp? Ignition amp isn't new, but when Paul (pug309twin40s) fitted the engine it wouldn't start. We swapped all the parts onto his 309 Mi including ignition amp to see if they would work and they behaved fine. So, if it's cocked up it's done so since then. Not sure if it's a pattern part, Paul if reading this do you know? If so there was a thread not so long back which proved how bad the pattern ones were. Could it be that if it's so bad it won't run at all when hot?

Could try swapping the ECU. Doesn't sound like an earth problem. Does it start ok from stone cold? Yes, perfectly and runs fine for 7-12 min then starts misfiring worse and worse for about 30 sec before conking out altogether, then won't start ECT should make it run rich when it's cold and the resistance changes as it warms up which indicates to the ECU to lean off on the mixture etc sounds the most likely culprit?

 

Thanks Phil for taking the time, just seen this, I've popped some answers in bold above

 

Trouble is the car is currently marooned 60 miles away so I have to travel for an hour and a bit each time I want to work on it. Sourcing/buying a part, then finding the time to go and work on it only to discover I need something else is getting frustrating. Not only that but the only time I can usually work on it is later on a Sat/on Sundays so GSF/Pug are shut if I need extra parts. I'm planning on just buying a new ignition amp and ecu temp sens and fit those this weekend, hoping for the best. If they don't help I'll try and borrow a known good ECU again (already have off QEP Matt for another problem a month or so ago)

 

After all this time and effort I'm sooo keen to get it behaving and on the road

Edited July 15, 2008 by mat1227

[philfingers 5]

well you could try what i suggested just pulling the plugs out but really for the cost of an ECT you may as well get one from GSF. I think I got one on Ebay for a similar amount brand new.

You could try and download a copy of Autodata 2004 from the web somewhere. These give all the servicing, fault codes etc for lots of cars from 1959 mini to 2004. You may get a copy from ebay too. These are around £1000 from Autodata (it's the Autodata system most of the privates garages use for servicing info etc). I'd send you a copy but I'm in Alaska just now working and won't be home for another month,

I'm sure I've seen some places you can download from on the web, these shareware sites. Can't access them through work system tho. I'd recommend to anyone to d/l a copy too, very useful thing to have.

 

Maybe this link will work http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3434310/AutoData_2004

 

Phil

[mat1227 1]

Right having pegged it straight back from work in Holborn to the car I've got the temp sensor, going to have a go at it now.

 

Fingers crossed and wish me luck

[mat1227 1]

OK, good news - fitted the new ECU temp sensor and...

 

- started fine (was cold, no surpises)

- ran fine initially

- once up to temp ran perfectly

- no missing at all at idle, or small throttle openings - even after 15 min of running stationary

 

..so, chuffed thanks to all who suggested ecu temp sensor

 

Slightly less positively, if I give it loads of gas (70% throttle plus) from tickover it will stall or splutter as opposed to rev cleanly. If I hold it at say 3k revs then give it loads of gas it revs perfectly. It's possible to make it stall outright just from loads of gas at idle which is strange. Bottom line is the engine's done about 10 miles since it went in, so hopefully a new ignition amp coming from Paul plus a good run out should cure it? Strikes me as strange though

[philfingers 5]

result anyway, at least you can drive it now!

 

phil

[mat1227 1]

Yep, thanks for your help Phil.

 

When I took it down a couple of weeks ago the car failed the MOT in part on excessive carbon content @ 4.16% - do you reckon this will have changed now it's idling without missing after swapping ecu temp sens?

 

Or do I need to ask the garage to adjust the screw on the AFM when the car's hooked up to the machine for the test? If so should/would they charge more than just an MOT? Sorry more silly questions I'm sure

 

Mat

[welshpug 1,657]

see how it goes, if its idling without missing a beat that's a good sign, if you can give it a good run to make sure its nice and warm.

 

see if you can watch while the car is having the emissions checked, they run best at around the 1.5% mark, its easy to tweak it.

[mat1227 1]

Ok it's a cheapo nationwide place rather than a friendly local place so I'll see, but sounds like if I ask them to give it a tweak they should be happy to?

 

Thanks everyone so chuffed it *seems* to be running fine..

 

Speedo's playing up too, but don't think that's part of the mot

[philfingers 5]

most places will tweak it. My place let me arse around with mine swapping the AFM etc on my old car trying to get it right. They may charge you 5 or 10 quid more but who cares if it's right.

Yes indeed the ECT could have been causing the bad running. Effectively it would have made it run rich, (it thinks it's colder than it is and over fuels to compensate) which eventually as it got warmer (and should have leaned off on the mixture) caused it to flodd basically I would think.

Should be fine now

[mat1227 1]

Ok thanks Phil that sounds positive. Trying to book an MOT at the last minute everywhere seems to be booked up, tried 8 places already..

 

HOPEFULLY today's the day

[mat1227 1]

Right losing the will with this one after behaving near perfectly on the driveway for two separate periods of 15 min or so - just to make sure.. having thought the new fuel and ecu temp sens had fixed it, the car broke down on the way to the MOT.

 

First 10 min driving it was fine (car was idling for 15 before setting off so up to temp), stopped for petrol, and driving up a bridge about 30 seconds later it started missing lightly on part throttle, within 10 sec it had cut out entirely. Again.

 

So, stationary misfire when hot is now fixed, but it seems it has problems when the engine is under load and hot. No idea what this tells me. The only significant thing was trying to restart it and manouvre it into a safer place once it had broke down was backfiring, which is fairly new. So, backfiring = unburnt fuel I presume, so am I right in saying this could still be ignition amp? If so will try swapping this out asap (cheers Paul )

 

Getting to the stage where I'm going to be posting on that 'torch your 205' thread..

 

On the plus side I gave it a proper tcut and polish for the first time in a year and it came up luvverly that made me feel a bit better

Edited July 20, 2008 by mat1227

[nick 3]

I know you say you have tested the ignition amp, but have a read of this thread of mine....

 

My problem

 

Nick

[mat1227 1]

Cheers Nick I'd not seen that thread - seems fairly damning evidence pointing towards ignition amp. Luckily Paul's sorted me out with a known good one to try so here's hoping that fixes it.

 

The random 'rhyme nor reason' cutting out is the most frustrating thing though! Just glad it's not my daily driver

[Phil H 16]

I had simlar once and it was due to the coil to distributor lead shorting out against the bonnet. This in turn wiped out the rotor arm, but turning the coil 180 degrees after a new lead and arm cured it completely.