timmsy19 3 Posted June 28, 2008 right ive doen a search but nothing has really come up for the mi16 issue recently got myself an mi16 which was great after i sorted the icv out first off there was a cable hard wired to the battery with a crocadile clip that had to be connected every time i wanted to start the car. i decided to take the clip off and wire it up directly without the clip.... started great and drove fine problem started when the other end of the cable came away from the relay.......well thats all sorted now and the engine is getting fuel... wired it up to a switched live so it comes on when you turn the key... problem is now that the engine wont start, changed the dizzy, rota arm and also put in a new battery as mine was dead and very corroded... deosnt seem to be getting a spark although i know the plugs and leads are fine. firing order is correct and timing is correct... anyone have anymore ideas.... on a second note the fuel pump seems like its constantly priming but that could just be me being paranoid.... by the way if anyone is close by that wants to come help getting it to work you will gladly get some beer tokens in return Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmsy19 3 Posted July 2, 2008 Had a quick look inot things yeaterday and found A: no power to the AFM B: no power the the injectors Has any got any ideas why and what i can do to rectify this issue? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 342 Posted July 2, 2008 If theres no spark try with another ignition amplifier Damir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stu 18 Posted July 2, 2008 (edited) If theres no power to the injectors then id start with the injection relay buddy. It should energise when the ignition is turned on and put a supply onto the injectors (among other things). The fuel pump relay should only energise whilst cranking/running. Have you got a copy of the CAPS software? Its invaluable mate, and helped me no end when i was fault finding mine. Edited July 2, 2008 by Stu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmsy19 3 Posted July 2, 2008 (edited) caps software?? nope no spark...so could be the ignition amp... where would i find the injection relay. is that the green one under engine bay or the brown one? Edited July 2, 2008 by timmsy19 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 342 Posted July 2, 2008 Caps : http://rapidshare.com/files/126592159/caps.zip.html It's the green one , brown (or yellow) is fuel pump relay .. but id also check if its all fine with the crank sensor (the one on the top of the gearbox..) if it's maybe unplugged or if theres a wiring breakdown you wont get spark .. Rgs ! Damir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmsy19 3 Posted July 2, 2008 (edited) i found the green one to be fuel pump relay. well thats whats powering my fuel pump when its kicking in. the brown one doesnt seem to be doing alot. :S this is what i got: http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f11/timmsy19/DSC00004.jpg crank sensor seems to be wired up fine cant find any lose cable or anything ps that caps software doesnt run on vista x64 Edited July 2, 2008 by timmsy19 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 342 Posted July 2, 2008 (edited) I'm not so much familiar with Mi16 loom , but yes from what i can see on the picture (by the wire colors and thickness ..) the brown one seems to be the injection relay and the green one will then be the fuel pump relay .. Can you read/write the wire numbers from both of these relays ? Ok. so you've checked for spark , and there isn't one , how about the fuel ? pull out the complete fuel rail with injectors , fuel pipes and wiring still connected from the inlet manifold , place the rail so that you can see the injectors , cranking the engine and watch the injectors.. if theres no fuel spray from the tip of the injectors , then theres something wrong with the relays/wiring/fuel pump/fuel filter etc. But do try with some spare ignition amp , and then check for spark again .. Rgs ! Damir oh , nearly forgot .. there should be voltage present on the injection relay terminals (but not on all wires , from my memory it'll be on the two thick grayish wires and also one thin wire , so 3 wires from 4 total ..) with ignition switched on - so on the brown one , but not one the green one - the fuel pump relay .. the current will start to flow from the injection relay (brown one) on to the fuel pump relay (green one) when you start cranking the engine .. at least it's like this on 8v Motronic systems .. Edited July 2, 2008 by DamirGTI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmsy19 3 Posted July 2, 2008 as its a bit dark i will have to get out there in the morning to get the wire numbers. however from memory there is 2 thick grey wires and 2 orange wires only 1 grey wire lights up when the ignition comes on (fuel pump comes on) i think one of the orange ones lights up but the other grey one doesnt. could this just be a relay issue if this is the case? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 342 Posted July 3, 2008 (edited) Dunno how is this Mi16 loom wired , but it should be similar if not just the same as on 8v Motronic cars (that's if its 1.3 Motronic management ... ML 4.1 could be different ..) Try with some spare known good relay and you'll see ... anyway i've found some pics of the injection and fuel pump relays (from my late 8v Motronic 1.3 car ..) which i've been checking while the ignition was switched on : Injection relay (it's green one on this the 8v Motronic system ..) So theres voltage present on one thick brown wire , and one the two thin gray wires .. theres no voltage present on the other thick brown wire with the ignition switched on , however i didn't check it during the cranking .. Fuel pump relay (yellow one in this case ..) Just one ... i think that it was the red wire .. Rgs ! Damir Edited July 3, 2008 by DamirGTI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmsy19 3 Posted July 3, 2008 right check the wire numbers this morning Brown relay:- 1x thin grey 1B 1x thin orange 36......... no power when ignition on nor on cranking 1x thick brown 1A 1x thick brown 20......... no power when ignition on nor on cranking Green relay:- 1x thick yellow 1 1x thin orange 20C 1x thin orange 20B 1x thick white 76A The rest are fine. the green relay is switching as it should and bringing fuel pump on . PS its a 3 row motronic ECU cant remember which version though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 342 Posted July 3, 2008 From the 405 M 1.3 Motronic wiring diagram : 1x thin gray 1B -> goes on the fuel pump relay where it joints with the wire No. 1 in the same terminal 1x thin orange 36 -> on the ECU 1x thick brown 1A -> on the batt. positive 1x thick brown 20 -> on the injectors 1x thick yellow 1 -> on the batt. positive (but i can see here two wires joined together .. as said above ..) 1x thin orange 20C -> on the ECU 1x thin orange 20B -> on the injectors 1x thick white 76A -> on the fuel pump All seems fine , if the fuel pump runs .. did you check if you're getting fuel out from the injectors ? try with the new/spare ignition amp , if theres no spark it'll be (hopefully) just a dodgy amp issue .. Rgs ! Damir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmsy19 3 Posted July 3, 2008 right well here the thing that could of buggered it. basicaly.... there was a white cable routed from the battery to a realy which had coem away. wasnt to sure which one it went to so after a little bit of investigating we moved a few wires. cant remember which now but will check it out tonight and take some more pics. we have a cable running from the green relay to a switching live i the car which allows the fuel pump to come on when ignition turned we then have another cable fro mthe ecu (orange cable) to one on the green relay which at the time though was bypassing the imoboliser. although if there is power to the fuel pump im sure all this wiring is fine. the other issue is the brown relay which has no power to 36 or 20. is this correct or should there be at least something running through it when the key is turned? nothing coming from the injectors. well no power anyway. ive not had them out but i presume if there is now power they wont be injecting anything anyway. thanks for all your help Damir. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmsy19 3 Posted July 3, 2008 well i feel like a right TIT it was the brown relay buggered.... cheers for all your help guys Share this post Link to post Share on other sites