Brake Pedal Travel

[Pob 1]

Hi all,

 

I've fitted braided brake lines and there is alot of pedal travel. The brakes work and feel solid, but there is alot of travel now.... What could cause this?

 

I also replaced the rear calipers from a GTi-6... but these are the same as a 205 arent they?

 

Thanks,

Dan

[jackherer 543]

If there are no leaks then it either needs more bleeding or possibly the master cylinder is faulty, they often die when you bleed the brakes if they are borderline in my experience. Make sure the pedal doesn't slowly sink if you keep it held down, this is a sign of leaking normally but if you cant find any leaks it means the MC is dead.

[welshpug 1,657]

gti6 rear calipers have a larger 32mm piston as opposed to the 205's 30mm, but that won't make a great deal of difference, check as suggested above.

[Pob 1]

If there are no leaks then it either needs more bleeding or possibly the master cylinder is faulty, they often die when you bleed the brakes if they are borderline in my experience. Make sure the pedal doesn't slowly sink if you keep it held down, this is a sign of leaking normally but if you cant find any leaks it means the MC is dead.

 

The pedal does sink when you hold it down, I thought it was a faulty servo. Why would bleeding of the brakes cause the pedal to have loads of travel all of a sudden?

 

If its not one thing its another with 205's, it's never ending! lol

 

Thanks,

Dan

[jackherer 543]

Its because the master cylinder moves further than normal during bleeding and disturbs the seals I think, it was going to happen sooner or later and its probably better to have it suddenly fail now rather than gradually when in use.

 

If its not one thing its another with 205's, it's never ending! lol

 

I know what you mean Be very careful with the brake lines when you change the m/c, if they are old its not unusual for them to twist with the nut.

[Pob 1]

Its because the master cylinder moves further than normal during bleeding and disturbs the seals I think, it was going to happen sooner or later and its probably better to have it suddenly fail now rather than gradually when in use.

I know what you mean Be very careful with the brake lines when you change the m/c, if they are old its not unusual for them to twist with the nut.

 

 

It still works, its just too low... I'll replace it with a 406 one, seeing as its needs replacing. Luckly the lines are quite new so fingers crossed it wont nacked the lines up.

 

Thanks,

Dan

[jackherer 543]

It still works

 

If the pedal sinks to the floor then you can't really consider them as working, a sinking brake pedal is always a very bad sign and could get MUCH worse with little or no warning!

[Pob 1]

If the pedal sinks to the floor then you can't really consider them as working, a sinking brake pedal is always a very bad sign and could get MUCH worse with little or no warning!

 

It only sinks when you hold it on the brakes, like a traffic lights. Its been like since I've owned the car, but theres more travel now. I know its not right and needs sorting but it still lock up the wheels.

 

Thanks,

Dan

[Paintguy 0]

It only sinks when you hold it on the brakes, like a traffic lights.

 

As said though, that's should be your warning to have them sorted ASAP

 

I had my pedal 'go soft' on the odd occasion, but never thought anything about it. Then one day my wife borrowed my car and had total brake failure when the M/C went!

 

Trust me - at this moment in time the extra travel should be the least of your worries.

Edited June 21, 2008 by Paintguy

[Pob 1]

As said though, that's should be your warning to have them sorted ASAP

 

I had my pedal 'go soft' on the odd occasion, but never thought anything about it. Then one day my wife borrowed my car and had total brake failure when the M/C went!

 

Trust me - at this moment in time the extra travel should be the least of your worries.

 

Any ideas on a price for a 406 Non-abs M/C? That is the correct one for bigger brakes isn't it?

 

Thanks,

Dan

[jackherer 543]

0000463571  	 BRAKE RESERVOIR  	    	 21.75 GBP     	 25.56 GBP     	  25.56 GBP     	

0000464334 	RESERVOIR CAP 			2.44 GBP   	2.87 GBP   	2.87 GBP   	

00004601J7 	MASTER CYLINDER 		82.97 GBP   	97.49 GBP   	97.49 GBP 

 

I think those are the right parts from Peugeot, but I haven't ordered them myself so can't confirm that. The master cylinders are strangely more expensive as pattern parts.

[Pob 1]

0000463571  	 BRAKE RESERVOIR  	    	 21.75 GBP     	 25.56 GBP     	  25.56 GBP     	

0000464334 	RESERVOIR CAP 			2.44 GBP   	2.87 GBP   	2.87 GBP   	

00004601J7 	MASTER CYLINDER 		82.97 GBP   	97.49 GBP   	97.49 GBP 

 

I think those are the right parts from Peugeot, but I haven't ordered them myself so can't confirm that. The master cylinders are strangely more expensive as pattern parts.

 

 

Thats a tad expensive, think I'll stick with the standard 1.9 M/C. Looked on GSF and they have 3 to choose from

 

N65218 BRAKE MASTER CYL-19mm

65269 BRAKE MASTER CYL-20.6mm

65269F BRAKE MAS CYL-20.6mm

 

Any ideas which one? Also fitting, whats the best way going about it? How do you stop the brake fluid going everywhere? Never done a M/C change before

 

Thanks,

Dan

[jackherer 543]

You want 20.6mm but I'm not sure which of those two it will be. It might be that one is three outlet and the other four in which case you need the four outlet one.

 

Empty the fluid from the old res and m/c by removing as much as possible with a syringe and the rest through the bleed nipples on the calipers. Use a load of old rags to make sure any drips don't get on the paintwork.

[Paintguy 0]

Use a load of old rags to make sure any drips don't get on the paintwork.

And have plenty of water handy (or a hosepipe) just in case you do spill any onto the paintwork. Brake fluid is a VERY effective paintstripper!

[Pob 1]

And have plenty of water handy (or a hosepipe) just in case you do spill any onto the paintwork. Brake fluid is a VERY effective paintstripper!

 

What about removing it from the servo? Thanks for all the info and advice

 

Dan

[welshpug 1,657]

removal from the servo is just the 2 nuts.

 

the difference between the two 20.6mm Master Cylinders listed by GSF is the quality of the item, 65269 is the Bendix item that retails at £31.25, the other (with the F suffix) is a £20 pattern part.

[Pob 1]

removal from the servo is just the 2 nuts.

 

the difference between the two 20.6mm Master Cylinders listed by GSF is the quality of the item, 65269 is the Bendix item that retails at £31.25, the other (with the F suffix) is a £20 pattern part.

 

Thanks for the info, a great help. Do you need to get any other parts? Is there seals between the M/C and the Reservior?

 

Thanks again,

Dan

[welshpug 1,657]

IIRC there is an o-ring at the base of the flange on the M/C, it comes with that though. which is purely an air-tight seal.

 

I certainly don't remember any other seal when I changed one last, its the same part as a MK2 golf as it happens

 

One thing worth checking while you have the M/C off is the distance from the front face of the Servo to the end of the pushrod, it should be between 22.2mm and 22.4mm to work properly, this will ensure that pedal travel is at its optimum, too close and the brakes will bind, too far and you will have a very long pedal.

[Pob 1]

IIRC there is an o-ring at the base of the flange on the M/C, it comes with that though. which is purely an air-tight seal.

 

I certainly don't remember any other seal when I changed one last, its the same part as a MK2 golf as it happens

 

One thing worth checking while you have the M/C off is the distance from the front face of the Servo to the end of the pushrod, it should be between 22.2mm and 22.4mm to work properly, this will ensure that pedal travel is at its optimum, too close and the brakes will bind, too far and you will have a very long pedal.

 

I've replaced it, easier than I thought. Bleeding the brakes was the hardest bit... Doing it on your own isn't very easy. I haven't drove it for 3 months and have been driving a escort so it feels a little strange. The pedal is solid and doesn't sink, it starts braking around half way...

 

Dan