sorr 0 Posted May 8, 2008 I have put a Gti 6 sump while retaining the spacer on my 1.9 Mi to use a PeterT extended pick up. Due to this I have to get a few cap head screws that are longer than the standard Mi ones. I have measured them up as M7 and I can find a supplier for M7, does anybody know where I can get some? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SweetBadger 94 Posted May 8, 2008 (edited) I have put a Gti 6 sump while retaining the spacer on my 1.9 Mi to use a PeterT extended pick up. Due to this I have to get a few cap head screws that are longer than the standard Mi ones. I have measured them up as M7 and I can find a supplier for M7, does anybody know where I can get some? I had this problem, you can simply drill out the bolt holes in the sump with a 12 mm bit and use the original bolts if you can't get hold of longer ones. You'll also need 2 extra standard sump bolts as there are 4 cap head screws on the standard mi sump but only 2 on the Gti6 Edited May 8, 2008 by SweetBadger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonnieG 0 Posted May 8, 2008 The Mi16 & Gti6 sump bolts are different & a real pain! In some holes the Gti6 alloy sump is a slightly narrower guage at the bolt holes which means that when you tighten the bolts up they hit the end of the avilable thread in the block before tightening fully so if you keep going you slighly risk cracking the block or at very least breaking off the captive end of the thread or damaging the thread itself. On others the thread is clear at the top so your ok to protude through. On others the Mi16 bolts are slightly short and as the torque your looking for to seal the sump is 10-12 lb/ft these threads can 'round & give way' in the soft alloy block before you reach the required torque. On the 2 countersunk bolts at the front that I think locate the Gti6 air con you need bolts approx 65-70mm long (Not incuding the bolt head) & the longest of the Mi16 ones is 55mm (Again not including the head) I googled these but M7 bolts are rare as & I ended up modifying 2 Vespa PX scooter crankcase bolts here which were 75mm long & I used some spacers!!! I sourced some of the M7 Bolts to suit the Gti6 sump direct from Peugeot but again a pain when you only need 2 & they have a minimum order quantity of 10 & approx 50p each.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rom 0 Posted May 8, 2008 M7 isnt that rare. Only when you try and find them on other brands Most decent suppliers can provide them. I had no trouble getting some bolts for my clutch cover, as i didnt want to pay the £20 + Peugeot wanted. I got them from a guy where i used to live, Canterbury Tools was the name. But most similar places should have them. Click Me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SweetBadger 94 Posted May 8, 2008 The Mi16 & Gti6 sump bolts are different & a real pain! In some holes the Gti6 alloy sump is a slightly narrower guage at the bolt holes which means that when you tighten the bolts up they hit the end of the avilable thread in the block before tightening fully so if you keep going you slighly risk cracking the block or at very least breaking off the captive end of the thread or damaging the thread itself. On others the thread is clear at the top so your ok to protude through. On others the Mi16 bolts are slightly short and as the torque your looking for to seal the sump is 10-12 lb/ft these threads can 'round & give way' in the soft alloy block before you reach the required torque. On the 2 countersunk bolts at the front that I think locate the Gti6 air con you need bolts approx 65-70mm long (Not incuding the bolt head) & the longest of the Mi16 ones is 55mm (Again not including the head) I googled these but M7 bolts are rare as & I ended up modifying 2 Vespa PX scooter crankcase bolts here which were 75mm long & I used some spacers!!! I sourced some of the M7 Bolts to suit the Gti6 sump direct from Peugeot but again a pain when you only need 2 & they have a minimum order quantity of 10 & approx 50p each.... Did you have this trouble when fitting the Gti6 sump with or without the spacer plate? I had no issues with the normal MI sump bolts when I fitted a 6 sump with the MI sump spacer... The only trouble I had was that the 6 sump has 2 bolt holes designed to accept long cap head screws that when combined with the spacer plate are too long for any of the cap head screws from the MI sump. Looks like sorr's got the same issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sorr 0 Posted May 8, 2008 Thanks for the replys, SweetBadger is correct my only issue is that the Mi cap head screws are not long enough with the spacer in place so looks like I will get the drill out. I can get hold of M7 bolts just not M7 cap head screws and becuse I am an anal old fart a bolt will sit proud and not give a factory look . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,661 Posted May 8, 2008 is this any help? http://stores.ebay.co.uk/WVS-FASTENERS_W0Q...QQfsubZ11QQtZkm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonnieG 0 Posted May 9, 2008 Yes I did use the spacer/stiffener when I fitted the Gti6 sump to my 1905cc Mi - Maybe I was just unlucky but when I used my standard Mi M7 bolts some of the shorter bolts went to their recommended torque but the washers on them could still rotate ie. not securing the sump..... These were the bolts which have captive threads in the block i.e. the top of the threads cant just protude through.... Given others experiences here maybe I was just unlucky & there is just just old gasket goo or other crap caught up in the top of the thread hole that just stopped these bolts fully holding the sump - I just used a couple of extra washers to hold the sump tight. I agree the 2 'aircon' ones at the front are probably the hardest to find as to 'look original' they really need to be Allen Bolts and ideally at least 70mm long - I struggled to find these.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philfingers 5 Posted May 10, 2008 Pics here of when I did mine last w/e http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=90114 The two counter bored holes you refer to in the 6 sump need deepening. I used a 1/2" drill (12.7mm in new money) and counter bored 10mm. you can then use std Mi caphead bolts. I used the spacer with Gti 6 sump on an Mi16 alloy block. The std Mi16 (55mm possibly, from RonnieG's post) will fit BUT they will only go in to the block about 2 threads. Which isn't enough. NOTE:- the two bolts above the rear main bearing cap (clutch end) are slightly shorter. If you use the other ones then they will bottom out. If you aren't using the spacer/stiffener plate then the std Mi bolts can be used to fit a 6 sump I believe ALSO NOTE:- the link to my pics in the first post of the thread ref above doesn't work, use the one further down. Also shows fitting a GTi6 windage tray to an Mi16 and also there's a oil pump baffle template with trap door on there you may wish to use too. Phil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petert 588 Posted May 10, 2008 Yes, you need to be careful with the depth of threads. As stated, counter boring the sump 10mm deeper is the best solution for the two cap screws. Our local hardware chain, Bunnings, sells M7 high tensile bolts in blister packs. Otherwise you'll have to shorten a few Mi16 bolts. To counterbore successfully, grind the end of a 12.7mm drill flat, with just a wee bit of back rake. It's called a flat bottom drill in the trade. Make sure you start the drill when its in the hole! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VisaGTi16v 1 Posted May 10, 2008 There was another thread mentioning how 2 of the hex bolts are slightly shorter on the mi16 however all 19(?) of mine are the same lenght and have been in the engine for at least 6 years if not longer so...... About to fit a gti6 sump to mine with the spacer so looks like I need to be drilling these 2 holes down a bit first Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
