Gti6 Lacking Spark

[rossi 0]

Hi.

 

After bein pissed around for many months with my car, i finally got it home today, on a tow rope! to cut a long story short, i paid a greasy £260 to wire my engine up. Basically, he's pissed me about no end, and ended up clearin his place out and done a runner. the only reason i have my car is cos i knew the land lord! The job is half done.

It is a lesson learnt for me! lost so much money in the process though, insurance and tax mainly (why i didnt sorn it i dont know!) and the cars just been stood!

 

Apart from the engine looking like a bomb site and many flat batteries later, the electrics work as they should, and the engine turns over. But its not getting any spark. It chugs and chugs then the battery eventually dies. i wanna get this goin myself, via lots of help on here, i can't trust any more mechanics round my end! so unreliable. There's wires everywhere, also, i noticed the purple engine mangements wire not leading to anywhere.

Whats the first things to check when the engine doesnt turn? The engine is Dixon's old one, and it hasn't been started since i bought it off him last year! Tonight i've put some petrol in... so any help?!

 

PS its the Xsara VTS engine not the GTI6 if that makes any difference! using my 1.9 be1 box on a mi16 clutch.

 

cheers

Edited April 16, 2008 by rossi

[welshpug 1,657]

check the easy things first, have you got power to the coilpacks? check the injectors as well, if both have power as well as the ecu, AND it has RPM signal from the crank AND a signal from the Cam sensor it should start.

[rossi 0]

Not sure about the RPM signal cos i'm not even sure the rev counter works, as ive never seen the engine active in this shell. Checked the spark plugs n injectors, they looked sound enough.Not sure about the RPM signal cos i'm not even sure the rev counter works, as ive never seen the engine active in this shell. Checked the spark plugs n injectors, they looked sound enough. saying that i've got one of them things off spiky, the rev counter cables, but ive no idea how to fit it. The flippin mechanic didnt do it!

[Toddy 7]

Check that you are supplying a switched live to pin 14 on the double relay.

 

Use a diode (in the correct direction) in the wiring connector for the an individual coil and injector if it flashes then it is receiving a signal from the ECU when cranking the engine.

 

As long as the pos & neg battery terminals are connected, pin 14 receives a switched feed and you are supplying 12v to the fuel pump when cranking it should now start.

 

Can you here the fuel pump prime initially?

 

Cheers

[rossi 0]

yeah there's wires everywhere under the dash and in the bay. i can operate the fuel pump manually with the relay. it does prime.

[rossi 0]

Where exactly is the pin 14 you're talkin about anyway ??

[welshpug 1,657]

Injection double relay, near the ecu.

Edited April 16, 2008 by welshpug

[rossi 0]

This is what my engine bay currently looks like ( big mess )

 

 

And this is under the dash:

 

 

Amazing it does turn, as previously stated, but no sign of firing up! Still not sure where this 14 pin connector is, can someone circle its whereabouts lol or give me a simple walk through guide. This is how i got it back from the garage, and im totally useless with electrics!

In the meantime i'm gonna get rid of all the puddles of oil in the boot cos the daft mechanic left the old 8v lump there!

Or even better, anyone lend a hand?? this has been goin on too long and just want it done and dusted! all the auto-electricians just run off in fright as soonas they get a glimpse of it!

 

Cheers

[rossi 0]

Jus checked for spark on a plug. but nothin

[Spiky 37]

i'd defo say you are not sending a live to the ignition relay,

 

as this controls the fuel pump, and all the ignition system,

 

i had forgotten this wire and it wouldn't start, put a live on and hay presto it starts.

 

but fook my the wiring looks shocking dude , shame you not closer, i would have sorted it for you

[Spiky 37]

.

 

to add to my last reply, if you can get the car to me, i will sort it for FREE dude

 

as i find it disgusting you been ripped off and it's been left like that

[rossi 0]

Legend spiky. You sure you could sort it.. there's bare wires wrapped around more bare random wires, such a mess. I'll see what i can do! Not had another offer of any sort. And i couldnt have you do it for nothin, beer tokens wil be involved at least! heh

Edited April 17, 2008 by rossi

[taylorspug 7]

Even though you are absolutely hours from me il offer the same thing, get the car down to me and i will get it running for you. The '6 looms are easy to wire up and even if its all butchered ive got a complete wiring diagram to go through in order to sort it. An hour and id have it running? Either way if you brought it down in the morning you would leave with it running at the end of the day, assuming the ECU is unlocked. All you would have to do then is get the loom tidied and nicely installed in the bay.

 

Its bloody terrible when dodgy mechanics pull stunts like this, if for no other reason than it gives the whole proffession a bad name, especially for small one man outfits like mine. What makes it worse is that its such an easy job! If he had half a brain he would have had it running in no time at all.

[rossi 0]

2 legends. At first the mechanic was so believable, and then I went away for a hol with some mates, i get home and its a right mess, meh. Anyway, balls to him... are you guys available weekends, or is during the week better? i'm gunna have a scount around for a car transporter or something, desperate to have it back for summer!

 

Cheers!

[taylorspug 7]

No problem, i know how gutted i would feel in the same situation so a bit of friendly help is the least i can offer. Come down on a weekend is the best bet with me mate, that way i will have a couple of hours free to concentrate on it.

[Spiky 37]

if you leave it with me a day or two i can make it look neat and tidy

 

if you come down and leave same day, it may not look as tidy

 

though if you get here early enough one day should be enough to sort it

 

assuming the rest of the car is sorted, though if you transport it down you can transport it back same day

[rossi 0]

both such a long way off haha, but cardiff is closer! would be up for leavin it a day, anythin for a decent job for a change! cheers for the offers guys. I'll let you know what goes on.

Edited April 17, 2008 by rossi

[Spiky 37]

i'm easy who you choose dude..lol

 

what evers easier for you

[gti-si 0]

Rossi, I've done my wiring myself and i'm abit dubious about it so wouldn't want to offer to help as I might waste your time. But coming through my bulhead i've only got about 12 wires, i've taken out everything I don't need from under the dash. It looks liek the cowboy hasn't bothered to remove anything from the old loom. Pin 14 is a cream wire I think on the large gti6 multiplug, (round connecter, but your sparky might of removed it already), anyway, that needs a switched live to it, the switched live that goes to it comes through the bulhead and is the thick red that powered your old coil, it's probably already connected to something, i think the loom requires 2 or 3 swtiched lives (don't quote me on this). If you search the gti6 wiring topics on here im sure theres a wire number for the wire that goes to pin 14. The RPM signal that was mentioned isn't anything to do with the rev counter either, that wouldn't stop it starting, it can run without. It comes from the crank sensor on the gearbox, the ecu uses this to determine the engine speed. You need this value going to the ECU for a spark. The cam sensor also needs to be wired up too.

 

The guy has completly butchered the gti6 loom so it looks alot more complicated than it is, im condifent you would of managed it with ease before that guy had a go, can see it would be very confusing now. If you were to end up doing it yourself though, I can assure you it's alot easier than it looks, just need to take out whats needed, which is basically everything that was with the old 8v management. There would be alot less clutter then and it'd become more obvious what goes where. I could help you out if you wanted, but like i say, I havn't tried to start mine as I've not finished my conversion so don't know whether its right....but I can't see me not being able to get it started.

 

If you can though, take it to either spiky or taylorspug, there alot more confident than I am

[rossi 0]

Cheers for that advice Si. The reason i bought this engine, was cos it was already in a 205 when i bought it! it is a plug & play operation (wiring wise) but somehow it looks so complicated like you said. Seeing as your quite local to me, i could pick u up sometimes, and take you to have a quick look at the engine. But if your busy etc, it's okay. I'm gettin quotes for havin the car delivered to spikys (cardiff being closer than west sussex!) and it's lookin like it's gonna cost a fortune.

Thinking if either spiky or Taylorspug would mind bein picked up by me, stoppin the night maybe and gettin dropped off home heh. Anytime's fine by me as i'm self-employed. what do you boys think about that?

 

Rossi, I've done my wiring myself and i'm abit dubious about it so wouldn't want to offer to help as I might waste your time. But coming through my bulhead i've only got about 12 wires, i've taken out everything I don't need from under the dash. It looks liek the cowboy hasn't bothered to remove anything from the old loom. Pin 14 is a cream wire I think on the large gti6 multiplug, (round connecter, but your sparky might of removed it already), anyway, that needs a switched live to it, the switched live that goes to it comes through the bulhead and is the thick red that powered your old coil, it's probably already connected to something, i think the loom requires 2 or 3 swtiched lives (don't quote me on this). If you search the gti6 wiring topics on here im sure theres a wire number for the wire that goes to pin 14. The RPM signal that was mentioned isn't anything to do with the rev counter either, that wouldn't stop it starting, it can run without. It comes from the crank sensor on the gearbox, the ecu uses this to determine the engine speed. You need this value going to the ECU for a spark. The cam sensor also needs to be wired up too.

 

The guy has completly butchered the gti6 loom so it looks alot more complicated than it is, im condifent you would of managed it with ease before that guy had a go, can see it would be very confusing now. If you were to end up doing it yourself though, I can assure you it's alot easier than it looks, just need to take out whats needed, which is basically everything that was with the old 8v management. There would be alot less clutter then and it'd become more obvious what goes where. I could help you out if you wanted, but like i say, I havn't tried to start mine as I've not finished my conversion so don't know whether its right....but I can't see me not being able to get it started.

 

If you can though, take it to either spiky or taylorspug, there alot more confident than I am

[Spiky 37]

how far away are you?

 

getting away for the weekend is no good for me at the momen, as the mrs is 8mths pregnant

[rossi 0]

Jus over 200 miles off ya. no worries though, ill think of something.

[gti-si 0]

If you want me to come take a look I don't mind mate, I should have some spare time this next week, i'll PM you my number

Edited April 19, 2008 by gti-si

[Spiky 37]

well guess what lads

 

the car now sits outside my garage (awaiting me to return home from work and fottie)

 

we'll have the car all running again soon enough

 

also need to fit exhaust as that was apparently removed when the car was taken off the lorry/trailor

 

lets pray my mrs dont have the baby over the next fews days ....lol (she due on the 15th of May..pmsl)

[Peetypug 5]

this is what i love about this forum

everybody wants to help everybody else

good on you spiky and taylorspug

your a bloody credit to this place