Low Oil Pressure

[steendp 0]

Hi.

 

I have an 309 gti16, which suffers from low oil pressure when turning to the right even when driving less than spiritual... A quick 90 degree turn or even a long semi-fast corner is enough to loose complete oil pressure (according to the original oil pressure switch/meter). It has no loss of oil pressure in lefthanders or when braking hard. The problem is more pronounced when the oil is up to temperature.

 

I have searched and searched this forum, and it doesn't seem that this problem is the same as the "normal" problem with oil pressure as the needed speed to provoke the issue is normal driving speed compared to trackday/racing speed. Now, before I go dismantling everything, I would like to have some ideas as to what to check for. Could it be oil drains in the head that is clogged? Any other suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance!

Steen

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

this is the xu9j4 engine i assume?

 

lest get the silly questions out of the way !

 

is it the correct dip stick you have and is there plenty oil in it ?

 

where does the gauge sit normally when idling (what rpm) and when you ar cruising above 2-3000 rpm ?

 

does the switch come on also or is it just the analogue gauge that drops a bit?

[pee vee 1]

Why is this problem never 'uniform'

some people say under breaking it happens, most people say round left handers.

 

now you say right handers lol

 

sorry to hijack your post mate.

 

there IS a little filter between the head and the block,

but i'd imagine that is for the FEED to the head.

 

i cant see that the engine would do it if you aint pushing hard... you sure it aint just a dodgy connection to the sender?

would seem far more likely to me than Surge at very low speed... eitehr that or very low oil level in engine, as said above???

[steendp 0]

It is the xu9j4 engine. The oil level has been double checked (both using dipstick and by measuring the amount of oil I've filled it up with). I've tried to overfill the engine slightly but that makes no difference. I have just changed the oil + filter to another brand, no change. I have removed the cam cover and the sump to see if anything looked unusual, but I could find anything that should cause the drop in oil pressure. I have also changed the sender unit with no change in behavior (the 'new' oil pressure sender was a spare I had lying, not a new one). I've checked connections to the sender.

 

When idling it is located around 3 depending on the oil temperature. Idle is app 1100rpm. Above 3000 rpm it is at 5'ish, 2000 is app. 4. Lefthanders and hard braking makes no difference in oil pressure. If I approach a 90 degree righthander breaking to app 20-25 mph and turning pretty hard (but well within the limits of the tires) the oil pressure drops immediately to zero and the stop sign lights up.

 

Is it only the oil switch that is connected to the stop lights or is it also the oil pressure sensor?

 

 

Next step is to fit an after market oil pressure gauge, but I have difficulty finding one that fits the thread size Peugeot is using locally- I really would like to try it out this weekend. If I'm unable to locate one I think I will check the wiring etc. behind the dash.

 

Any suggestions as to what my next step should be?

 

Thanks!

Steen

[pee vee 1]

25mph and its surging SURELY that cant be right. gotta be another explanation for it mate... surely?? :(

Edited April 12, 2008 by pee vee

[dan8139 0]

25mph and its surging SURELY that cant be right. gotta be another explanation for it mate... surely??

 

 

Yeah, the gauge and lights are worked off seperate senders so if the gauge goes low and the STOP etc go on then it IS an oil pressure prob.

[205007 12]

Any suggestions as to what my next step should be?

 

 

Replace shells and oil pump spring

[steendp 0]

Replace shells and oil pump spring

 

What I don't understand is that the oil pressure is perfectly ok otherwise. If the above should be needed, wouldn't it have a low pressure consistently? Well, it's at cheap method to try, so I could give it a try.

 

Thanks!

Steen

[steendp 0]

I have not been able to work at the car until now. I have mounted a secondary oil pressure gauge, which unfortunately also indicates low oil pressure in right handers.

 

Next step is to change the oil pump spring to see if that changes anything.

 

 

To be continued...

[steendp 0]

Back from the garage..

 

I changed the oil pump spring as suggested, but unfortunately it didn't solve the problem. I had a good look at the oil pump, but it seems to be fine. There are some minor wear where the oil rotors are running against the end wall, but not enough for me to think that is a problem. (Please correct me if i'm wrong). The oil pump I had next to me had similar wear. However - the suction hole has been moved (See http://picasaweb.google.com/steendp/OilPum...06311043597362). I think to try to combat the traditional oil surge. This could be the culprit, although I have had the car for some time before the current problem appeared.

 

Next logical step for me would be to change the oil pump it self. I fed up with removing the sump though, so I think it will have to wait for next weekend.

 

Please, if anyone has any suggestions I'm open to them. I've studied a dismantled block + oil pump, but can't seem to find any suggestions as to why the problem is appearing.

[RonnieG 0]

Since your problems are mostly right hand turn related then I think your problems are also most likely to be oil starvation i.e. no matter what work you do to the oil pump spring, shells etc etc the oil starvation will still be there - The oil pump cant pump any oil if theres only air there....

 

The oil pick up in the photo looks only to make the problem worse being even further away from the oil in right hand bends. Std Peugeot oil pumps are very good & not prone to failure so it may be worth sourcing another 2nd hand genuine Pegeot one with a standard pick up pipe to help a bit. I was always advised not to go near alternative pumps.

 

I had to recently fit a Gti6 Sump on my track only Mi16'd 205 for similar oil starvation issues & for whatever reason some Mi16's seem to suffer from oil surge/starvation much easier than others....

 

To really deal with the problem you may have to consider fitting a 'PTS' type sump baffle or an XU10 sump with inbuilt baffle conversion.

 

Plenty of threads on here on these options if you do a search.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back from the garage..

 

I changed the oil pump spring as suggested, but unfortunately it didn't solve the problem. I had a good look at the oil pump, but it seems to be fine. There are some minor wear where the oil rotors are running against the end wall, but not enough for me to think that is a problem. (Please correct me if i'm wrong). The oil pump I had next to me had similar wear. However - the suction hole has been moved (See http://picasaweb.google.com/steendp/OilPum...06311043597362). I think to try to combat the traditional oil surge. This could be the culprit, although I have had the car for some time before the current problem appeared.

 

Next logical step for me would be to change the oil pump it self. I fed up with removing the sump though, so I think it will have to wait for next weekend.

 

Please, if anyone has any suggestions I'm open to them. I've studied a dismantled block + oil pump, but can't seem to find any suggestions as to why the problem is appearing.

[steendp 0]

Hi Ronnie.

 

Thanks for your feedback. The modified oil pickup is also what I suspect is causing the problem. It's only strange that the problem was not present when I bought the car but a year later. Perhaps is was over filled when I bought it....

 

I have plenty of oil pumps lying around, so I think I will try to change it. Do you (or anyone else) know if I cant get away with just changing the pickup? Would make the task a bit easier.

[RonnieG 0]

Yes I think you could just change the pick up plate and sieve on top.

 

The pick up plate is held on the base of the supply pipe with I think 5 bent 'tabs' that locate the pick up plate and a sieve behind on to the alloy supply pipe.

 

You should be able to unbend these and replace with another one from a similar pump ok.

 

I have my doubts about this totally solving your oil starvation issues but it can only help....

[steendp 0]

I was thinking of the suction part that bolts on to the oil pump. If one of the oil pumps I have is less worn, perhaps it would make sense change all of it. Still I have to wonder if it will change anything...

 

Can it somehow be the standard oil cooler that is fecking with me?

Edited May 13, 2008 by steendp

[steendp 0]

Todays work:

Changed the oilfilter - no luck

Removed oil-cooler - no luck

Overfilled with app. ½ litre of oil - It does make it a little better. I can turn sharper and faster, but the oil pressure is still low when turning hard. To me that points to oil starvation in the sump. Why the oil wont drain to the sump is a big mystery to me, as I have looked for anything that could cause that.

 

I'm about to give up on this one, so any help is greatly appreciated!

[RonnieG 0]

If you're only using your car on the road and you don't want to go the full/recommended route of fitting sump baffling then I would be tempted to try just making a wee oil pump baffle out of alloy plate as Philfingers has done in the second photo this posting;

 

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=90114

 

 

Should be pretty easy to make & that may just make enough of a difference for your use.....

[Craigb 2]

I have not been able to work at the car until now. I have mounted a secondary oil pressure gauge, which unfortunately also indicates low oil pressure in right handers.

 

Next step is to change the oil pump spring to see if that changes anything.

To be continued...

 

Is this mechanical or electrical.

 

My std electrical gauge shows massive fluctuations, but the mechanical one shows a fairly steady pressure , when there is enough oil in the system

[steendp 0]

Ronnie: When I get past this problem, then I will look into other solutions if I still get oil surge. This is just not the 'normal' problem, as it happens in way to low speed.

 

Craig: It's actually a electric gauge. It's reacting extremely quick compared to the original gauge. The oil pressure is almost instantly at 5 when starting the engine, where the old one is slowly rising for several seconds. The new gauge is also 1 second or so ahead of the old one when cornering. If I can get my hands on a mechanical I'll try that. I have just never been able to activate the oil pressure switch before, neither in this car nor in my other 205. Thanks for your suggestion!

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

if this is just for the road, then get hold of an XU10 sump with trap door baffle (metal type seem to be less prone to falling apart) and pickup entender, try to stay clear of GTi-6 sumps as the wings for the gearbox as massive, not needed, and just generally get in the way.

 

Extend the pickup by the same width as the spacer plate. Then fill with ~6.5L of oil as per petert solution. Shouldnt surge on the road at all then.

 

If the pickup entension is too much hassel I assume you can ditch the spacer plate and just run an XU10 sump although the spacer is sometimes called a strengthener plate, so up to you.

[RonnieG 0]

If you strongly believe the issues are not surge/oil starvation related then it probably does feel worth trying to source or borrow a mechanical oil pressure guage and then at least you can check your issues are not Sender, Wiring or Guage related.

 

Another point possibly worth checking is the oil pump drive sprocket on the crankshaft is tightly held - Not all of these have a 'Locating Key' and I believe are just held by ensuring the bolt securing the bottom cam belt pulley etc to the crankshaft is at its correct torque.