[engine_work] 2.1 S16 Build Diary

[Doof 11]

Ok i'm getting my arse into gear with this rebuild now, and with longer nights upon us i'll be able to get something done after work so i thought i'd start a diary to keep all related questions etc in one topic.

 

Useful topics so far if you're interested:

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=88165&hl=

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=88205&hl=

 

Where i'm at right now then, i'm finishing stripping the engine and collecting plenty of goodies ready for the rebuilding to begin. Going to be taking my head and block to Shenpar this week to get things skimmed and honed before assembly.

 

Hoping to have it finished and in the car by June so plenty of time to get things done and save up the cash to do so. My insurance runs out in June, thats why its having to wait as Elephant wont cover engine changes.

 

Final spec:

 

2092cc S16 Running standard management

1.9 Mi injectors (going to get them asnu cleaned) to increase fuelling for the extra cc's

1.9 Mi 88mm crank

87mm Wiesco Forged pistons

Peter T Stage 1 Inlet cam

CatCam Verniers

88mm cometic MLS 1.5mm head gasket giving approx 10.8:1 CR

GTi-6 Inlet maniflow (not going to be horrible painted red dont worry!

Maniflow exhaust manifold - tempted to get it ceramic coated to make it last.

Quaife LSD

 

If i do get 185bhp then based on 900kg i'll just make the 200bhp/tonne barrier at 205bhp/tonne

 

Pics:

 

Mmm goodies

 

Stripped Head

 

Ground 1.9 Mi crank

 

Wheres my damn windage tray if this is an S16?! Appears to have the right main bearing bolts to which a windage tray would fit to?

 

And how does this bearing cap come out? There appears to be some spacer type things down each side of the spacer (and no bolts through the side of the block! )

 

Cheers,

 

Lewis

Edited March 29, 2008 by Doof

[Doof 11]

Its just occurred to me that my sump doesn't have a trap door in it....and if theres no windage tray do i really have an S16 engine! The rocker cover looks right with the extra bit to hold the coil packs, the head appears to be an Mi16 head and there are spray bars for the pistons!

 

Is there any way i can check, seems the numpty who rebuilt it in the past ( i really do hate this person) might have just left the windage tray out and stuck a normal Mi sump on it!

[deejay391 0]

Do any of these pictures help? Might be of some use?

 

Can't remember the name of those bearings that sit on the side of the main cap....but they just sit in a groove cut out in the cap

Edited March 29, 2008 by deejay391

[Sandy 191]

Thrust washers, they control end float.

 

I'd say that's been apart before.

[Doof 11]

Its definitely been apart before and by the looks of it was build by a moron. But still i'll check everything before it goes back together and do the job properly this time!

 

Everythings in bits now so i'll be dropping stuff in to Shenpar this week for the machining etc. Gonna get the whole bottom end lightened and balanced while i'm at it i think. Might as well get the flywheel done too.

 

More pics when everything is back in all its shiney glory

[welshpug 1,657]

the RFY engine from my ZX didnt have a windage tray, but did have the baffle on the left side of the steel sump

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The bolts as you say are there but in the wrong position as they need to be across one from the middle, Also the oil pump is missing the splash guard, I'll send you up a windage tray (Got loads spare) and even a tin trap door sump if you need it all.

Just a idea why not use the GTi6 ECU and loom, easier to Map, But you should get more than 185bhp from the engine

[s16 Peggy 0]

Build is looking good and I am sure it will make good power..

 

One question, which is slightly off topic, so apologies for that.

 

Do you have any pictures of the exhaust manifold, and did you buy it new or second hand as I have looked for a manifold but cant find one.

 

 

Cheers

 

Nigel

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

It's one I'm supplying that is a revised design so hopefully it should clear the 205's bulkhead better due to the extra height, The 306 thou I havn't yet got around to trying one on, mainly due to the time and cost but my exhaust man does 405 manifolds of all things but would have to make one to see if it would fit or not

[Doof 11]

Miles, the plan with the management was to stick within the limits of the standard ECU and knock sensor / lambda sensor. I presume that these would allow enough adjustment to let the cams and small displacement increase be beneficial.

 

I was trying to steer away from mapping as suddenly i'm running into big money for mapping right? All i've ever heard is that a days mapping at Emerald is 500 quid...would someone like chipwizards be able to remap the standard ECU for much less?

 

Turns out my sump does have a plastic trapdoor, i was looking at another sump sat on my rather cluttered garage floor! I will take one of those windage trays though, can send it up with my exhaust when i order it in a few weeks.

 

I'll have to take another picture of the oil pump because i'm fairly sure it has some splash guard on it, think the above picture is just too blurred.

[Sam 4]

Do you already have the gasket? I have a 1.8mm one for sale...

[James_R 3]

Sounds like a reasonable spec should be good.

 

Just don't get a quaife

[Doof 11]

I'll see about the 1.8 gasket sam, might be a bit thick.

 

Why not a quaife James?

[Doof 11]

So a few new bits have arrived from Fiji Bob and S16 Peggy (thanks guys):

 

Flowed S16 head

 

 

Cool looking verniers, seems a shame to enclose them!

 

I know its hard to judge by the photos but can anyone comment on the headwork? I dont know a great deal but it looks reasonable and doesn't look to be done with a dremel which is always good. I've never seen valve guides like that either!!

 

Dropped the bottom end off with shenpar the other week to be bored out and balanced. Should be ready in a couple of weeks which means the whole lot can go together!!

[Doof 11]

Oh yea, and since buying this head i guess the idea of sticking with std management has gone out the window as i dont think it would cope well enough. Phoned chip wizards and they can map it for £400 so its looking like thats the best option really.

[petert 586]

I'm fairly certain that 1.9L Mi16 injectors won't be enough to fuel that combination. It will make more than 185hp. Probably more like 195-200hp. You should be looking for injectors around 250-270cc/min. A Stage I cam on a 1.9L will run the Mi16 injectors to saturation.

[Doof 11]

Yea, i was thinking of running GTI6 / S16 management with larger injectors, then having it mapped to suit. The only problem comes in that then, how do i run it in before taking it to be mapped? The first period of running is important and surely it cant just be stuck on an RR and fired up for the first time ever...

 

Also, Peter...when putting the head back together is there anything i should do in terms of lubrication for the first run? Special camshaft lube on the lobes? Normal oil on all other bearing surfaces?

 

To be honest, now i'm kinda hoping for 200+

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Good work on this Lewis. I've filled my car now with all fluids and (touch wood) so far still no leaks and received this advice reference your question on what to use and how to first fire up.

 

Sandy said it really depends on your engine builder's advice. I called Matt at QEP (my builder) and his advice was as follows:

 

- Cam cover off and gearbox oil poured over cams. Cover refitted.

- Boggo cheap engine oil, say 20W/50 from the cheap rack. Did I say cheap?

- Fire up AND DO NOT ALLOW TO IDLE! This is when the cam lobes are under most stress, so allow to run at 2,500rpm when stress is least for circa 20mins.

- Then drive taking it to around 3,500rpm and letting it slow down on the over run. Steady idle to 3,500 is the key apparently.

- At 500miles, dump the oil and spend what you can afford on either 10W/40 or 20W/50, the latter suiting those hot times when you track it.

 

HTH matey and keep up the good work.

[Doof 11]

Cheers Sarty, some good info. When you say steady idle to 3500, you mean accelerate from idle to 3500?

 

The thing that gets me is this, say i run gti6 management, but with bigger injectors as suggested (270cc) can i actually run it before i've had it mapped...i suppose you have to because you can't just map it straight away...basically, will my engine even run on the std management with just bigger injectors and could damage occur if i do 500 miles on std management with the fuelling presumably all over the place before i take it to be mapped?

 

My engine builders advice is pretty crap really, he doesn't know what he's on about because its me

 

EDIT: still interested to hear any comments good or bad on the flowed head, in particular those guides which i've never seen before...

Edited April 19, 2008 by Doof

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Yes. I understood it as smooth accel/decel between idle & 3.5k. Nothing drastic just accelerate up and let it run back down.

 

Dunno about your other questions as I know SFA as well!

[petert 586]

I'd run the std. ECU and 1.9L injectors until you've run the cam in. It will still be fine to drive after that, even to the dyno, but I wouldn't go looking for full power runs until you've got an AFR meter on it. It may well be that a tweak with the fuel pressure will be enough to keep it happy. Excessive fuel during the cam run in period will wash down the bores preventing ring bed in.

 

As for assembling and running in the cam(s), pour a tube of Crane BreakIn Concentrate over the lobes/buckets. This stuff is very high in zinc and is designed specifically for this purpose. Most oils have no zinc (or very little) these days. Use 20W/50 as suggested. Start and run straight to 2000, for 20 mins. If a fault develops, like a coolant leak, stop, fix the problem, then continue at 2000. After the 20 mins @ 2000, you're right to drive it and start bedding the rings in.

[Doof 11]

Thanks Peter, thats some great info!

 

I decided to lift a valve out of this unknown head yesterday and found these...

 

 

I also noticed that the heads been machined for bigger cams either side of the lifters so i can see a phase 2 coming on.

 

Heres another pic of the ports from the valve side, its completely smooth from seat to throat, whereas the standard head has at least a 2mm lip all the way round the inserts! Looks to have 3 angle seats too which is good.

 

[Doof 11]

The old 1.6 is ready to come out next weekend when i get the engine crane. Also should have the block back by then bored out and balanced, wont be long to stick the head on and time it up then it'll be time to put it in!

 

One thing im not sure about is injectors. I've found these which would be suitable:

 

Bosch

0 280 150 001 265 26.0 53.0 300

Bosch

0 280 150 002 265 26.0 53.0 300

Bosch

0 280 150 009 265 26.0 53.0 300

 

But what cars can i steal these injectors from? (i presume its cheaper to do that and have them cleaned than it is to buy new)

 

Also, are these low or high impedance injectors?

 

Lewis

[205turbo 32 2 Cars]

your spec of your engine looks good ,

 

I have Anthonys 2045cc motor in my car , std s16 pistons, 88m crank and 3 angle valve seats, mi 4x4 cams and twin 45's clockwork dizzy for the moment and that made 196.6 bhp at a psooc rolling road last week, so i'm sure you will get good power from yours

[Sandy 191]

3 angle seats do not a good head make necessarily, the best torque/litre and bhp/litre XU 16v heads I've had have both been single angle!