Few Questions On Welding Bottle

[M@tt 77]

Hi

 

Can anyone tell me if a welding regualtor (like off ebay) will screw directly into a pub gas bottle ok or is some sort of adapter required and if so any details on thread sizes required.

 

I've got a bottle which i'm going to use with my tig welder (once i find somewhere to fill it up for me)

 

Also will CO2 be adequet as i might be able to get the pub across the road to fill it up for me if i ask nicely or will i need an argon mix? also any rough estimates on the cost of having one filled?

 

cheers

[welshpug 1,666]

Argoshield is better than straight CO2, is a specific mix that BOC do IIRC.

 

£40-£50 is how much my mate pays for a fair sized bottle, I think the sizes are pretty standard too, you may need an adapter from the reg to the bottle depending on your welder/regulator.

Edited March 25, 2008 by welshpug

[Tom Fenton 1,548]

For a TIG you need an inert gas, Argon basically. The argon mixes such as Argoshield are argon and CO2 mix, this is not suitable for TIG welding and is meant for MIG welding. CO2 only from a pub can be used for MIG welding. But be careful as most pubs don't use pure CO2 anymore, they use a CO2/Nitrogen mix which is no good for welding!

 

As for getting it filled up, you've no chance TBH, there are two main industrial gas suppliers, BOC and Air Products, neither will touch a bottle you take in. The way they work it is that you have to first set up an account at something like £25, they then rent you a bottle at £40 per year, and after that you pay for the gas when you take the bottle back for refilling. All OK if you are welding for a living but horrendously expensive for the home user who might make a bottle last 4 years for e.g.

If you are only doing bits and bobs your best bet is the throwaway bottles from Halfords etc TBH, they may seem expensive but if you compare them to the cost as above they are not too bad really.

[welshpug 1,666]

DOH! I just read your post again, I thought you meant MIG, never done that myself.

 

The book I've got recommends pure argon, and mentions introducing some Hydrogen to improve the heat input, depends on what material is to be welded.

[Toddy 7]

You can try Dee Jay Tools (0114 2356204) last time i used them, approx 7 years ago, they would refill a pub gas bottle for £10 and also supplied all the connectors needed. he is an independent similar to snap-on vans. Worth a try if he can supply diff gases.

[M@tt 77]

cheers Dave i'll give him a try tomorrow.

 

So far Tom your right, i spoke to couple of places, they all said i had to have a bottle account and rent a bottle. was about £80/year rental and another £80 to fill it up Worked out the cheapest to get a big bastard one as they have so many and its easier to fill apparently, also every fill has a £12 admin charge so a bigger bottle is better :S

 

Although i've found soemwhere on net that does a bottle deposit of £40 and then charges per refil as needed. I'm waitng back on a quote to see how much it is but i'll post up when i find out.

[Tom Fenton 1,548]

Of course I am right, I'm always right LOL LMAO!!

[M@tt 77]

Dave the Dee Jay Tools guy couldn't help unfortunatley

 

i've just got a response from the place on the net www.adamsgas.co.uk

 

Thanks for your enquiry. We can supply you a 9.4L cylinder and our prices are as follows:

 

Pure Argon £38.00 + vat

Refundable deposit per bottle £40.00

Delivery per bottle £25.00 + vat

 

The price for delivery includes the price of the empty cylinder coming back

for exchange. Delivery is sent by next day courier

 

The cylinders are filled to 137bar

 

The valve size is exactly the same as BOC and everyone else.

 

works out at £114 for the bottle. They're based in Kent otherwise i guess you I go pick it up and save myself £25+vat

 

i've put a post on a local forum and have had a few messages about people whoi might be able to possibly help, so waiting to hear back from them.

 

As I've got a tig welder do i need 100% argon regardless of what i'm welding? The main alloy bit i'd be welding is when i chop my mi16 inlet manifold for my supercharger project, the rest of the stuff would probbaly just be normal mild steel or possibly the occasional bit of stainless.

[Tom Fenton 1,548]

As far as I know you do need Argon for TIG welding of any kind, perhaps you could get away with something else for mild steel but I know stainless is bad for picking up carbon and going brittle, and ally is a shirt-front to weld even with the right gas let alone trying to get by with something else.

[Paintguy 0]

You can try Dee Jay Tools (0114 2356204) last time i used them,

 

Blimey that's a blast from the past! I used to buy tools of him ages ago

[Emmy Seize 8]

You´ll need Argon for any kind of TIG welding, no matter what material should be joined (Tom is right, Tom etc... ) .

 

Thing is, that it keeps the electrode from burning (which is where TIG is different to MIG/MAG, where you melt the electrode).

 

With regard to prices I seem to be pretty lucky to live in Germany.

 

I just bought a big bottle of Argon for 220 Euros. The bottle is my property now, so no annual charges.

 

A refill is about 50 Euros over here.

 

CO2 bottles from the pub could be used for MIG welding as far as the connectors are concerned.

 

As already stated, it works but I wouldn´t recommend it.

[Rippthrough 98]

Of course, you could just fetch it to someone with a TIG welder, a workshop and several bottles of gas, eh M@tt

[M@tt 77]

right well while i try and source a proper bottle of argon i opted to buy one of those disposable bottles and a regulator from B&Q for £10/bottle and the regulator£15 however when i got home it became apparent i had a problem

 

the regulator has 4 outlets 2 of which are blanked off and the other 2 have weird connecotrs in. I guessed the connector on the left took some gas piping to the welder and found some 4mm tube fitted snuggly in it however as soon as i open up the valve the other side leaks aswell i have nothing to block it. i assume i need a guage for it aswell however B&Q don't sell the gauges and i can't find anywhere selling them seperately.

 

then to top it off the gas connector on the welder is too big for the pipe from the bottle!!! ahhhh

 

any suggestions on where to find something suitable to convert the pipe sizes?

 

 

[309PUG 2 1 Cars]

right well while i try and source a proper bottle of argon i opted to buy one of those disposable bottles and a regulator from B&Q for £10/bottle and the regulator£15 however when i got home it became apparent i had a problem

 

the regulator has 4 outlets 2 of which are blanked off and the other 2 have weird connecotrs in. I guessed the connector on the left took some gas piping to the welder and found some 4mm tube fitted snuggly in it however as soon as i open up the valve the other side leaks aswell i have nothing to block it. i assume i need a guage for it aswell however B&Q don't sell the gauges and i can't find anywhere selling them seperately.

 

then to top it off the gas connector on the welder is too big for the pipe from the bottle!!! ahhhh

 

any suggestions on where to find something suitable to convert the pipe sizes?

 

 

 

 

Have you had a look in Machine Mart ???

 

Chris

 

PS you can borrow my regulator if you are desperate.

[Tom Fenton 1,548]

Buy one of these, the push fit should accept the pipe you have, then cut off the brass union and this pipe should be large enough to fit over the pipe stub on your TIG.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOBBY-WELDER-GAS-PIP...1742.m153.l1262

 

If its any good to you I have an empty CO2 pub gas bottle I could be persuaded to sell, no good for TIG really, but OK for MIG.

[M@tt 77]

Well i went to a welding place today and the helpful old chap there told me what they've done in the past.

 

He gave me a section of rubber hose (for free ) large enough to push over the fitting on the back of the welder and said take the smaller section of pipe wrap a layer or 2 of insulating tape round the end then fit it inside the larger section so that its areally tight fit. Then either tape over the join or use a small jubilee clip if necessary. He said there won't be that much pressure coming from the bottle as the regulator sees to that so should work a treat simple solution, i like it!!

 

just need to find a suitable bolt to bank off the other outlet now. i'll try the little village hardware store on saturday it's a proper emporium, can get all sorts of random stuff there, he still sells nails\screws by weight out of little wooden drawers and individual electral connectors like ring terminals for 3p .

 

Tom I've got a pub co2 jobbie already and a f*** off massive energas bottle but both of them are empty

 

Seriously if you can get hold of a bottle filled with 100% argon there's cash in it mate

Edited April 3, 2008 by M@tt