Starting Problem

[MiD 0]

I hope that someone can help me with an annoying intermittent starting problem on my 205 STDT. I've searched every topic on turbo's and diesels on this forum and cannot find anything close to what is happening to my car.

 

I have owned it 11 years now and apart from an occasional problem with the ancillaries, I have never had any major problems.

 

The battery was changed 1000 miles ago and the starter motor is not very old. Glow plugs changed a couple of years ago and about a year ago a new stop solenoid. I have cleaned up all the earth wires I could find in the engine bay.

 

I sit in turn the key and wait for the orange glow plug light to go out, the light goes out I turn the key and nothing. Sometimes I can hear the starter motor clicking, though it may click all the time and I just do not hear it due to traffic noise.

 

I then make sure all the other electrics are off and turn the key off and start the whole procedure again, sometimes it starts and other times it does not.

 

Sometimes I have to pump the accelerator and other times do the whole starting procedure with the accelerator half way down. Other times I just have to match my foot with the turning of the key.

 

At times, it just starts as sweet as a diesel can without any of the messing around. At work at present and nipped outside and it started as if nothing was amiss.

 

Does not matter if its cold hot been running or standing, I never know what I am going to get. I am that used to now it is just like an extra starting procedure but makes for concerned looks on passengers faces.

[uncle buck 0]

….I sit in turn the key and wait for the orange glow plug light to go out, the light goes out I turn the key and nothing. Sometimes I can hear the starter motor clicking, though it may click all the time and I just do not hear it due to traffic noise.

So is the starter motor turning the engine over or just clicking?

 

….Sometimes I have to pump the accelerator and other times do the whole starting procedure with the accelerator half way down. Other times I just have to match my foot with the turning of the key.

From this I assume the starter motor is turning the engine over, is this the case?

 

….At times, it just starts as sweet as a diesel can without any of the messing around. At work at present and nipped outside and it started as if nothing was amiss.

When the starter motor turns the engine as it should over does it start ok, or do you have to be pumping the accelerator to get it to start?

[keith 0]

i've also got this problem...

[uncle buck 0]

i've also got this problem...

Can you describe the problem.

[Teacher 0]

If this is anything like the problem i have experienced in the past with my old xs, it's not confined to diesels and i'll try to explain the symptoms:

 

Turn the key same as always but instead of hearing the starter motor burst into life you just get a single click as the solenoid engages then as you release the key it clicks again as the solenoid disengages.

 

In the past i have replaced starter motors and solenoid units for known good ones to no avail.

 

My 1.6 has started doing it too over the past week so i think a check of all earth/wiring is in order over the weekend.

 

The xs was sold to a friend when the problem later became a real pain and he had it fixed at a local garage. Only cost him £10 so i shouln't expect it to be anything major

 

Good luck let us know if you get it sorted

[uncle buck 0]

If the solenoid is clicking it shows it working....however I have known them to click but not let enough power through to the starter motor to turn the engine over....this was due to the pitted & burnt terminals inside the solenoid.

....obviously if the starter motor is tested off the car.... when power is applied it appears to works as it should as it isn't under load!

A new solenoid will sort out this problem...available from most auto electric places.

 

Diesel starter motors / solenoids often take a hammering if glow plugs aren't in good condition as the engine will take a lot of extra winding to get it to start.

 

I have known starter motors to stop working (clicking from the solenoid) due to the shaft on which the bendix runs being bone dry...a little grease on the shaft & away they go.

[MiD 0]

As "luck" would have it the car has started perfectly since I posted though I don't believe this will last. However as I'm away for the next few weeks will not have the opputunity to find out how it is behaving until I get back.

 

I don't believe it is the starter motor as I had similar problems with the motor before and with this one since it was new and no the starter motor does not engage.

 

Keith I notice you have an STDT, is your problem you call the same with this car. If it is keep me posted if you solve it.

[keith 0]

Keith I notice you have an STDT, is your problem you call the same with this car. If it is keep me posted if you solve it.

 

hi, yes i will do. i recently bought this so havent really tried to sort the problem apart from changing the timing belt and head gasket. i'll let you know.

[uncle buck 0]

If when you turn the key to start the engine you only get a clicking sound from the starter motor / solenoid the problem has to be the starter motor / solenoid...well that would be my betting.

 

If its clicking it show that the power is getting to the solenoid when you turn the key....this is fed to the solenoid via the small wire you will find attached to it.

 

The solenoid is just a relay & when it gets the power feed from the small wire it throws to connect the thick wire that is connected to it from the battery to the thick wire on it that goes into the starter motor.

 

Make sure the connections on the solenoid are sound & clean & that the thick wires are in good condition. Also make sure that the earth strap from the engine to the car body is sound.

 

 

 

[brian j 32]

I had exactly the same problem with my old STDT.

 

I tried a new starter and solenoid and new wireing with no luck.

 

In my case it was as follows:

 

If you put a volt meter on the starter solenoid feed (thin wire from ignition in the above post) do you get a good voltage?

 

On mine if the connector was fitted to the solenoid I did not, but if it was not connected I got 12ish. (the starter motor never engaged so it was not current drop because of the starter)

 

What happened was that there is quite a current pull through the starter solenoid itself (it is a relay as already stated but a very powerful one and pulls a surprising amount of current) and hence through the ignition switch. The switch developed a high resistance contact through wear and that meant that when the load was put on it to move the starter solenoid, I got a voltage drop across the ignition switch due to the resistance and there was enough juice to make the solenoid click, but not to fully engage it.

 

To fix mine, I fitted a cheap 12v automotive relay and a dash mounted switch to start it. (chav style... ) Others I hnow of have just fitted an extra relay to the existing wireing so that the ignition switch feed goes to switch a 12v relay, that then feeds the starter solenoid. The current load is less on the switch so it all works ok.

 

The proper fix would have been a new ignition switch, but that seems like a lot of hassle for little gain.

Edited March 2, 2008 by brian j

[uncle buck 0]

MiD & keith,

 

Well there you go looks like brian has solved the problem.

 

 

 

Regards.

[MiD 0]

If Brian has solved the problem then a large pint of sump oil or beer is on me. Heading north tomorrow in the Gti so will have a look when I get back in a few weeks.

 

Is the ignition switch on the STDT a bog standard 205 switch?

 

Thanks to all for the advice and help, will post the result when I've "solved" the problem as it may help someone else in the future.

[keith 0]

To fix mine, I fitted a cheap 12v automotive relay and a dash mounted switch to start it. (chav style... ) Others I hnow of have just fitted an extra relay to the existing wireing so that the ignition switch feed goes to switch a 12v relay, that then feeds the starter solenoid. The current load is less on the switch so it all works ok.

 

you diddnt happen to own my stdt that i just bought? (L290 ...) because someone has done exactly that! turns out that was the problem, well part of. the connections and wires were a little shot so i replaced them and it starts okay, after bleeding the hell out of the fuel lines (this was also a problem cause i diddnt lock the pump when i did the timing belt and head gasket)

 

sadly today though, my stdt (1 week old) died its death after discovering the head is cracked and the coolant system is hotter than a kettle!

 

as of next month i will be replacing the engine with a 1.9dt unit from a 306.

 

cheers both of you for the info anyway,

 

Keith

[brian j 32]

you diddnt happen to own my stdt that i just bought? (L290 ...) because someone has done exactly that! turns out that was the problem, well part of. the connections and wires were a little shot so i replaced them and it starts okay, after bleeding the hell out of the fuel lines (this was also a problem cause i diddnt lock the pump when i did the timing belt and head gasket)

 

No problem Keith,

 

Unfortunately my STDT ended its life abruptly when it was rear-ended by a fiesta doing an est. 50mph.

 

The whiplash payout bought me a 306 HDi, but I still miss the fun... One day I'll find a suitable replacement.

 

B