205 2.0l Iron

[NeilGTi85 5]

Hello All,

 

Recently brought a standard 2l iron block'd 205 (Spooks built it)....was originly a 1.6 GTi.

 

Its been RR at 150 ish and 140 Lb torque.....im looking to get near to 200bhp's

 

I've been reading about bigger valve's etc, but was wondering whats the best way to get there N/A?

 

Cheers

 

Neil

[Baz 421]

16v?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I wouldn't really bother with big valves after reading this pinned topic, OR unless you have heaps of cash to spend on other areas.

 

You could go upped displacement if you want fun and games; but that's quite a long job. James R has some pistons you might wanna use if you do go this route, complete with a crank as well I think.

 

Rich

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Depends on your budget really, Quickest route is some TB's and managment and a decent exhaust manifold, But I would advise checking the bottom end before anything else as the Big ends tend to go pop on these quite often now.

CC increase is a idea but only really with a larger bore as the bore wear rate on the Iron blocks are very bad compared to the Alloy block Liners, you might be lucky if it's low milage thou.

[Doof 11]

I wouldn't really bother with big valves after reading this pinned topic, OR unless you have heaps of cash to spend on other areas.

 

You could go upped displacement if you want fun and games; but that's quite a long job. James R has some pistons you might wanna use if you do go this route, complete with a crank as well I think.

 

Rich

 

No he doesn't

 

(i bought his pistons)

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

i bought his pistons

 

Yay VVVvvvvvvrrrrooooooooooooooooommmmmmmm

[NeilGTi85 5]

Yeah its 16V....Ive read the post about the valve's etc....

 

I would like some TB's.....I love that sound, but ive heard you need them setting up alot.....every month or so, i do alot of mile's.

 

Also my engine is at 75K, pretty low.

 

Whats the best way to get to 200bhp.......if you had the money turbo?

 

Cheers

 

Neil

[GLPoomobile 958]

I think I'm right in saying ITBs don't need continual adjustment, that's carbs you are thinking off (old skool).

 

Once mapped the ITBs should be fine until you make any further modification that requires remapping to suit.

[Sandy 191]

If the initial set up is good and the engine doesn't go "off", TB's aren't going to need regular adjustment.

[bobob 0]

Have a look at peterT's (off this forum) cams. Prob won't get you to 200bhp, but for the money I think they are a very good buy.

 

edit: have a look here

 

Also, have a search about fitting a Gti6 inlet

Edited February 21, 2008 by bobob

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Have a look at peterT's (off this forum) cams. Prob won't get you to 200bhp, but for the money I think they are a very good buy.

 

edit: have a look here

 

Also, have a search about fitting a Gti6 inlet

 

I can help you with both the above, having Pete's cams (stage I) and a GTi6 inlet myself.

Edited February 21, 2008 by DrSarty

[bobob 0]

DR Sarty, ave you had your car rr'd with the mods? Also, is that all you have done to your engine?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

>Bobob. No the engine's not in yet. It's a 2.2litre (overbored) S16 block/forged 87mm pistons on a diesel 92mm crank with an Mi head (Pete's st.I cam), GTi6 inlet and 4-2-1 exhaust running on MS2v3. There's other things too but that's yawnarama city. Should be running mid-late March.

 

Back to topic. I personally wouldn't set any figures to achieve with your engine. You must know what you really want it for first, then build/taylor it to suit. 200bhp is one thing, but if you want it driveable on the road, that HP might be happening in a way that makes the car...well...crap! However if you want it for the track or something else, the delivery and usability of that figure might be ideal.

 

What I'm saying is there's more to it than just figures.

Edited February 22, 2008 by cybernck
removing offtopic

[NeilGTi85 5]

I totally agree with you Drsarty, However, as i run my car tack and road im looking for "around" 200Bhp. At this time im going towards ITB's.....which i did get mixed up with carbs.... Im an old school racer, had MK1 escort with carbs......ummm....

 

I was just weighing up my option's agianst ITB's or Valve's Cam's.....bore....etc, My current choice will be OMEX managment with 45's.

 

What do you think??

 

I dont want to much power im in smoke all the time just want enough to get 13-14seconds 1/4 mile,

 

Cheers

 

Neil

[Grim.Badger 15]

Its probably best if this thread is kept on topic as otherwise it could get deleted.

 

On topic - ITBs are the way forward, with cams to suit. If you wanted better valves then I think a GTi6 head will fit which is much better than the standard S16 head, it also comes with a high quality exhaust manifold; however if you fitted these you would need to extend the bottom engine mount and get your downpipe modified as the GTi6 exhaust manifold would otherwise foul the bulkhead (I'm not sure how much this problem can be resolved by getting a shorter upper engine mount like BBM do but I think the bottom mount still needs extending).

 

I think 45s is a name used exclusively for carbs, meaning the diameter of the inlet iirc.

 

There are plenty of people on here running 190/200bhp who don't seem to have traction problems, look up Dreamweaver and KateGTi.

[petert 588]

200hp is easily achievable with one of my Stage I cams and ITB's, on an otherwise standard S16 engine. Remember its 1998cc, not 1905cc. There's nothing wrong with an S16 head. It's basically identical to the 1.9L head. If you're engine was tired and needed a rebuild, then yes, consider new valves, porting etc. But given it's a low km engine I'd just stick the good bits on and go for it.

 

If you do a search, you'll find a dyno run from a 1905cc std. valve engine that Mattsav built. I think it made 195hp on 45mm TB's and just a cam change.

 

The S16 is very under rated in my opinion. It's got lots of good internals that make it easy to build good reliable hp.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

please don't go off-topic in this public technical forum.

 

thanks.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Just to back up Peter, My old 1.9 Mi with TB's and a 4-2-1 made 200 bhp, But as said check the bottom end

[NeilGTi85 5]

thanks to evryone for there help, I'm still learning about the 16V engine's as i've had no dealing's with them in the past really.

 

Can you help me one step further?

 

What sort of cams should i go for and where to get them?

 

And the same with the ITB's and also management?

 

I dont mind spending the extra cash, instead of going to Ebay etc and getting shoddy copies etc...

 

Where, what and price is what im after,

 

Many thanks to all the people thats helped,

 

Neil

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Nice photo of your car. You obviously look after it/her/him.

 

For cams (plus) I would recommend either QEP (Mattsav) for Catcam products OR PeterT, both on this forum. Both products are great and come from extremely knowledgable people.

 

To give you an idea as was said earlier, Kate205GTi had an Mi and now has a GTi6 in her 205, both running Catcam inlet with ITBs and Emerald (IIRC) aftermarket ECU and cleared 190bhp.

 

Several of us now have PeterT's inlet cams, stage I & stage II and are very happy. They are stonkingly good value (they are regrinds BTW) and including shipping (he's in Australia!!!), for me were actually cheaper than Catcams and turned round in around a week.

 

Both of these guys are also fonts of knowledge and you will be rewarded 10 times over doing business with them.

 

Colin Satchell (eeyore) is a possible source of either custom carb/ITB inlet manifolds, maybe even a set-up complete.

 

ECUs are available direct, from Matt at QEP or even from Sandy309 IIARC and PeteT (including the expensive varieties such as Haltech & DTA), or of course you could go Megasquirt like I have, because I'm cheap like the budgie. Don't forget you'll benefit from ECU/mapping expertise as well at the time of RR set-up; so it pays to choose wisely in this regard.

 

Ultimately I reckon roughly you should aim off for 200BHP: £200 inlet cam / £500-1000+ ITBs & manifold / £500 plus ECU & know-how.

 

Seems odd doesn't it? To spend £2000 to get 200bhp, when you can buy a Nissan 200SX for under a grand and have more and a complete snazzy, all singing and dancing motor to boot.

 

Why do we do this?

Edited February 22, 2008 by DrSarty

[petert 588]

Several of us now have PeterT's inlet cams, stage I & stage II and are very happy. They are stonkingly good value (they are regrinds BTW) and including shipping (he's in Australia!!!), for me were actually cheaper than Catcams and turned round in around a week.

 

I also have new billets for Mi16/S16 which allows more higher lift alternatives.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

For ECU's you need to find a local RR and see which ones they like or you'll be doing allot of traveling to get it mapped correctly, Budget on around £1.5k for buying them and mapping and abit more for fitting

[tony perks 1]

My rally car engine is 1905cc, mi16 pistons flush with liners, runs modded 8v std size valve head 45 dellorto's and modded dizzy and piper grp a cam, it comes on cam properly ie pulling hard at 3200rpm and gives 150lbft torque at 3000, peak power is 196 at the flywheel at 7700rpm, yet this engine will trundle through town at 1500rpm in 5th(running very short 5th and 4.4 diff), i bet a 16v wont pull that low down and still make power?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

i bet a 16v wont pull that low down and still make power?

 

Just try me....

[tony perks 1]

Just try me....

what sort of torque are you getting from 16v then?, and what cam specs road/rallY?