Smoky Engine.......1.6 Gti

[Tom Fenton 1,548]

So after the long and drawn out process that has been reviving the once scrapyard bound 205 GTI 1.6, I took it for its VIC check yesterday, over to Doncaster, so a reasonable 1/2 hour run. I've just changed the oil and filter and the pressure on the standard gauge (guessometer) is really strong, and it seems to go really well for a standard 1.6 with a K&N kit.

 

Anyway, pulled up to the VIC station, turned it off and went to see the guy etc. He went out to it maybe 5 or 10 min later, fired it up and hey presto a big cloud of blue smoke came forth from the back of the car.

 

I'm fairly convinced this is valve stem seals, on the way home I kept an eye on the rear view mirror, and even under full acceleration it is clean as a whistle out the back. I can't tell you if its using oil or not as it has done a full 45 miles in my ownership so far. The previous owner did mention something about valve stem seals, but when I got it, the oil was full of petrol and it smoked horrendously all the time, so I wrote this off as him thinking it was the stem seals causing this smoke.

 

Anyone else care to comment before I set about pulling the head off it?

[GLPoomobile 958]

The stem seals are going to be a prime suspect.

 

I'd say drive it around for a while and get an idea of the what circumstances this happens, see if it gets worse better etc, do a comp test. You seem to know what you are doing so I'm sure you'll be able to figure out if it's the valve stem seals or piston rings etc.

 

When I got my last 1.6 the owner had had a few issues with it smoking and it had been getting steadily worse. I drove it around for months with it getting worse and worse, using oil, until it got to the point where I knew it wouldn't pass the impending MOT and decided to whip off the head and do the seals, which cured it. A few people on here had said it was more likely to be the rings due to the circumstances it was happening but thankfully it wasn't

 

The service history with the car showed that the problem had first started in 1997 and a Pug dealer had diagnosed worn piston rings, but nothing was ever done about it and the problem continued on and off for the next 10 years (nearly) until I got the car and I think by then the seals were nice and crispy and were rapidly disintegrating

[Longun 1]

Steam seals will generally also blow blue smoke when sat at lights etc with the engine running its happens at idle and then normally clears after a few seconds driving. Normall starts minor and gets worse with time.

[Tom Fenton 1,548]

My thought was stem seals but always nice to canvas a bit of opinion. Reason being the way it smokes when restarted after a decent run, my thoughts are that the run gets oil moving about, then when the engine is switched off and allowed to sit, the u/s seals allow the oil down the valve stems, which then burns off when you fire it up again. After the initial cloud when hot restarting it clears up.

[steve@cornwall 100]

My thought was stem seals but always nice to canvas a bit of opinion. Reason being the way it smokes when restarted after a decent run, my thoughts are that the run gets oil moving about, then when the engine is switched off and allowed to sit, the u/s seals allow the oil down the valve stems, which then burns off when you fire it up again. After the initial cloud when hot restarting it clears up.

 

Whoa!!! Did you find out why the original oil was full of petrol? I seem to remember in another thread that it was originally running very lean? Is it overfuelling but not showing at idle as you've tuned this out with the afm? Have you checked the condition of the new oil now it's run for a while? A high oil pressure reading would be in line for this scenario IMO

[Tom Fenton 1,548]

Yes I did find the cause, the air flow meter was u/s and it had been overfuelling massively throughout the rev range.

Another air flow meter was retracked and fitted, this has been checked whilst driving along with my wideband lambda gauge and now the fuelling is correct through the rev range.

The old old was thin and piss like and as a result the pressure was down (oil pressure is generated by the small running clearances between crank and bearing; thinner oil equals less pressure). With new oil in the pressure is much better, as I'd expect. The new oil is as I'd expect it to be, and doesn't stink of fuel like the old stuff did. With the old oil in it fouled plugs up and was literally pouring smoke out of the back whether hot or cold, idling or revved. It now is as clean as a whistle, I've only seen it smoke for maybe 2 or 3 seconds, on 2 occasions, the first being after it had been idling for 15 mins and was booted up the road, the second as described above, on hot restart after having sat for 10mins after a decent run.

[welshpug 1,666]

certainly sounds like valve stem seals, any other problem would tend to create more regular smoke.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

I think you can do the VSS without removing the head, if you put compressed air into the bores. Travill had this done on his.

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

I think you can do the VSS without removing the head, if you put compressed air into the bores. Travill had this done on his.

 

some neat tools HERE for making the job so much easier and they arent that expensive either.

 

cheaper than a headgasket and all the rest.

[Tom Fenton 1,548]

Which of those tools will fit the 8v XU head does anyone know?

 

I must admit though that I have a gasket set on the shelf anyway, and wouldn't mind having a look at the valve guides and seats too, so I'll probably take it off...

[GLPoomobile 958]

When I did mine (head off) I used a compressor that was near identical to this one but I think I got mine from Machinemart.

 

My personal opinion on whether to do it head on or off is as follows......I'd only do it with the head on if a) I was under a VERY tight budget or b.) if I knew that the head gasket, belt and tensioners were not that old.

 

If you don't know the history of the head gasket, belt and tensioners (water pump to), or they are getting on in life, then I'd say absolutely remove the head and do the whole lot in a oner. Gives you the chance to inspect and clean everything else up at the same time. If a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing properly (shame I rarely live up to this though ).

 

I also chose not to do it with the head on as it was a learning curve for me and didn't trust myself to be able to do it properly. I just felt more comfortable doing it with the head off, even though many would see this as a much more challenging job if you've never removed a head and done a gasket and belt etc.

Edited January 24, 2008 by GLPoomobile

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

When I did mine (head off) I used a compressor that was near identical to this one but I think I got mine from Machinemart.

 

My personal opinion on whether to do it head on or off is as follows......I'd only do it with the head on if a) I was under a VERY tight budget or b.) if I knew that the head gasket, belt and tensioners were not that old.

 

If you don't know the history of the head gasket, belt and tensioners (water pump to), or they are getting on in life, then I'd say absolutely remove the head and do the whole lot in a oner. Gives you the chance to inspect and clean everything else up at the same time. If a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing properly (shame I rarely live up to this though ).

 

I also chose not to do it with the head on as it was a learning curve for me and didn't trust myself to be able to do it properly. I just felt more comfortable doing it with the head off, even though many would see this as a much more challenging job if you've never removed a head and done a gasket and belt etc.

 

it do agree to a certain extent , but there's also the old 'if it aint broke dont fix it' chestnut

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

Which of those tools will fit the 8v XU head does anyone know?

 

I must admit though that I have a gasket set on the shelf anyway, and wouldn't mind having a look at the valve guides and seats too, so I'll probably take it off...

 

its a universal kit . the valves on the 8v are no different from 99% of others. i dont have the kit but have had that page bookmarked for a long time now. you would need everything on that first page except one of the spring compressors. the vs160 looks the better, easier to us of the two.

 

the pliers and the collet tool can easily be replaced with a set of long nose plers and a screwdriver with blob of grease , but personnaly for all the expense i'de buy them.