Rear Beam Mounts

[RossD 44]

Where can I get some uprated/GrP N (Do they even exist) rubber sandwich mounts for the rear beam? I see plenty of people do a solid mount kit, but I'm not sure if I want to go that far!

 

Cheers

[jackherer 543]

They do exist, Skip Brown cars should have them, as should a few others.

[McDude 33]

Heh heh!

 

I just fitted Skip Brown's grp N mounts this afternoon.

 

With a big lever and a friend to help you, you don't even have to take the whole subframe off. Just undo the bolts top and bottom and give it large - but not too large as you can bend the frame because it is a bit flimsy.

 

Haven't driven it yet though because I've got a problem rear damper bolt that just will not shift.

[RossD 44]

Heh heh!

 

I just fitted Skip Brown's grp N mounts this afternoon.

 

 

Just out of interest, how much were they?

[McDude 33]

Just out of interest, how much were they?

£38.78 delivered.

[jackherer 543]

Its worth noting that the group A kits come with the front bushes as well but the group Ns are just the rear mounts so you should change those (standard parts) too.

[RossD 44]

Yep, I was thinking of changing the fronts for the standard jobs, as they seem very (too!) soft. The front mounts can be moved side to side very easily by hand.

Is this how they are supposed to be? The rubber bushes look in very good condition. If this is how they are meant to be I wonder if changing them would be worth it.....

 

Also, not really relevant, but the car has 93k and is now 17 years old. The torsion bars literally slid out by turning the stud on the end of the beam and the bearings look perfect.

[jackherer 543]

All the standard bushes I've seen are very soft but I've never fitted new standard ones (just group A) so I don't really know what they should be like when new.

 

You're very lucky with your beam, definitely the exception that proves the rule

[McDude 33]

I didn't change the fronts. I'm doing a bit of a suck it and see and hoping that the fronts are okay.

 

It was a really simple job to do the rears, doing the front obviously means beam off territory.

 

I'll let you know how I get on - provided that I'm not dead. If it really feels bad then I'll do the fronts too, but I'm crossing fingers for the time being.

[petert 587]

Definitely take the time to replace the front bushes. The front bushes I make, and Bakers, are made from nylon. So there's still a small degree of compliance. Once the rear beam is fully reco'd, along with the full Grp. A kit, you'll have a grin from ear to ear.

[RossD 44]

I might try the uprated front bushes withthe GrpN rears then.

[mrblonde 0]

this may sound stupid but!.whats good about the uprated rear mounts?..

Edited January 21, 2008 by mrblonde

[bren_1.3 1]

solid mounts dont allow the rear suspension to twist or pivot about during cornering....which means more predictable/controllable lift off oversteer and trail braking into corners. they *should* also last a lift time being made out of nylon and aluminium respectively, rather than steel and rubber. (which rots and persishes) the ride is also harsher, and more vibrations are passed into the cabin from the rear suspension in using the group A solid mounts.

 

most original O.E rubber mounts are shagged by now. ive had a couple where the rear mount has come apart. effectively unbolting the beam from the car, it leads to some hairy moments, as the beam is practically swinging free.

[RossD 44]

Except I'm not 100% keen on solidly bolting the rear beam to the car, so I'm going to try and use hard rubber sandwich mounts, but the above explanation still stands

[GLPoomobile 958]

the ride is also harsher, and more vibrations are passed into the cabin from the rear suspension in using the group A solid mounts.

 

When I used Gp A mounts I did not find the ride was any harsher, in fact it made the car feel as though it was better screwed together (and I've used this analogy before when talking about this, but it made the car feel more like it was built by VAG than Pug!). My OE mounts were in top top condition too (looked almost new) when I made the swap so it's not as if I'm comparing the Gp A to shagged bushes either. The only thing I found was that you get a bit more cabin noise as a result of the vibrations being passed through to the shell. Kind of like the hum you get from a duff rear wheel bearing.

 

I've often wondered, is it possible to compromise very slightly on the GpA design, and keep as much of the stiffness as possible but minimise the hum passed in to the cabin, by using some thin (but very strong) rubber washer between the mounts and the shell? Probably a stupid idea, but just a thought Or would the softer Gp N mounts achieve that?

[RossD 44]

GLPoo, what you have described above is exactly what I'm hoping to achieve by using the GpN rears

[mrblonde 0]

i thing is that ive got some knocking from the rear.i dont think its the beam!.but the thing is the mounts look ok tho !!...so im thinking of getting uprated mounts.

[McDude 33]

I might try the uprated front bushes withthe GrpN rears then.

That's not my understanding of a GrpN set up. I thought it was standard front mounts (of the rear sub frame) and harder rear mounts. That is the set up I've gone for with a bit of hope that the fronts aren't too sh4gged.

 

The solid fronts are to go with the solid rears of a GrpA set up.

 

All my understanding of course - which gets proven wrong on a daily basis!

 

I'm trying to acheive the same as you by the way - a more planted rear (oo-er) but not as severe as a GrpA because I still want to use the car on road a lot.

 

Still waiting for my front bump stop to arrive so still not tested the set up.

[bren_1.3 1]

apologies GLPoomobile, your most probably right, the ride isnt harsher just more vibrations. ive only ever swapped from shafted o.e mounts to group A stuff. so understandably the difference is dramatic IMO.

[GLPoomobile 958]

I'm trying to acheive the same as you by the way - a more planted rear (oo-er) but not as severe as a GrpA because I still want to use the car on road a lot.

 

I guess it depends on how you define too severe for road use.

 

The GpA mounts I had were on my old 1.9 and that same beam later ended up on my previous 1.6. I used to commute daily from central london (horrendous roads and plenty of speed humps) to Hatfield (so a few miles on the A1) which was anywhere from a 45 minute to a 2 hour journey. I found it perfectly bearable and not at all uncomfortable.

 

There's only two downsides to GpA beam mounts IMO - the first and worst being that they can be a royal PITA to fit, the second and not very serious being the road noise passed in to the cabin. Not very bad though with a full interior.

[McDude 33]

Okay! So I've finally got everything back together. Set up is standard all round with only the group N rear sandwich mounts.

 

I can say the the mounts are worth the bother - they aren't in any way harsher than the standard, but the back end feels a bit tighter. In fact it is now showing the standard set up to be a bit on the soft side (I'm thinking of changing it already!)

 

Like I said, just changing the rears is a piece of p1ss - jack car up, remove spare wheel, undo bolts top and bottom of the sandwich, get a bit of wood to lever against and a solid metal bar - get a friend (preferebly one who can bench press a bit) to lever the frame away from the boot floor while you remove the old part/put in the new part. Caution - watch your fingers doing this - you could lose one if your friend lets go at the wrong point.

 

Not a tricky job at all and a nice compromise over solids (plus you only need to do the back!)

[GLPoomobile 958]

I'm not sre I'd advise levering the beam down to do it!

 

You only need to loosen the four front mount nuts and that should give enough free play to do the backs, without risking lost fingers or bending the boot floor

[McDude 33]

I'm not sre I'd advise levering the beam down to do it!

You aren't really moving the beam at all, only the legs that go to the back. It is surprisingly easy to do it the way I did it and the boot floor remains 100% straight. When you undo the bolts you can almost remove the block without levering anyway - you only need to lever about an inch tops.

 

But the way you suggest Mr GLPoomobile is probably a better move from a keeping all fingers intact point of view

 

p.s. I did speak to the guys at Skip Brown prior to trying this method and they confirmed it was possible.

[kate205gti 4]

slightly OT but how long do the group N rubber sandwich mounts last? ive just taken a set off my beam to put solids on and they look fine - is it worth keeping then to put on another car or not?

[CosKev 16]

I would deffo recommend replacing the top mounts,these are mine out of 85k mile car:

 

 

Anyone know how much standard replacements are off hand please???????