[car_overhaul] 1992 1.6 Gti Rebuild

[pip470 61]

If your on a deul carrage way doing 50 mph and the wheel come off it could hit an oncoming car at 100 mph, it could go throgh the windscreen, anything could happen. Who knows how your car will react with one maybe two wheels coming off. Its an accident that can be prevented. The best solution but is probably not availabe to everyone is get the ends of two scrap driveshafts and and bolt them in tightly, this will avoid the seperation. I find the bearing hard to press out of the stub axle difficult sometimes but never the hub from the center of the bearing. Sorry to hijack this thread but i am speeking from experiance on this one and felt it needed to be mentioned.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

There's a circlip that holds the bearing in the hub and it usually takes a press to split a bearing so I think you'll be O.K

But with todays sociaty all hooked up on writing method statements and Safety, then maybe you should PAY! for the trailer.

Don't forget the hard hat and High Vis Jacket too!

 

It's true, the only thing holding your wheel on without a driveshaft is the snug fit of the spigot slid inside the bearing. The circlip only holds the outer race of the bearing in, nothing more (but as you say the outer part is not moving when it's pressed in); when the centre spigot/wheelhub is slid out of the bearing, the bearing itslef can be taken apart with bare hands, only the outer part of the bearing is pressed. The big nut on the driveshaft is to clamp all this (the wheelhub/spigot to the main hub carrier against the bearing) together and basically hold the wheel on.

 

It was probably ok as you drove slowly without much lateral force on the wheel, but I bet you could pull a front wheel off if you tugged a wheel about.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

On my press it can take up to 15T of force to shift the outer race from the upright, however the hub into the bearing is little more than a light push fit.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

If your on a deul carrage way doing 50 mph and the wheel come off it could hit an oncoming car at 100 mph, it could go throgh the windscreen, anything could happen. Who knows how your car will react with one maybe two wheels coming off. Its an accident that can be prevented. The best solution but is probably not availabe to everyone is get the ends of two scrap driveshafts and and bolt them in tightly, this will avoid the seperation. I find the bearing hard to press out of the stub axle difficult sometimes but never the hub from the center of the bearing. Sorry to hijack this thread but i am speeking from experiance on this one and felt it needed to be mentioned.

 

50 mph!! What? on tow!

 

It's true, the only thing holding your wheel on without a driveshaft is the snug fit of the spigot slid inside the bearing. The circlip only holds the outer race of the bearing in, nothing more (but as you say the outer part is not moving when it's pressed in); when the centre spigot/wheelhub is slid out of the bearing, the bearing itslef can be taken apart with bare hands, only the outer part of the bearing is pressed. The big nut on the driveshaft is to clamp all this (the wheelhub/spigot to the main hub carrier against the bearing) together and basically hold the wheel on.

 

It was probably ok as you drove slowly without much lateral force on the wheel, but I bet you could pull a front wheel off if you tugged a wheel about.

 

I bet you that you can't.

 

On my press it can take up to 15T of force to shift the outer race from the upright, however the hub into the bearing is little more than a light push fit.

 

Someone with experiance

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Alex, Tom is confirming what I and pip470 said!!!! The centre hub (that the wheel bolts to) is just a push fit inside the bearing, without the driveshaft locking it all together, the wheel can potentially just slide out of the bearing.

 

All I can suggest is you look more closely at how the hub/wheelhub/bearing/driveshaft is assembled.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Alex, Tom is confirming what I and pip470 said!!!! The centre hub (that the wheel bolts to) is just a push fit inside the bearing, without the driveshaft locking it all together, the wheel can potentially just slide out of the bearing.

 

All I can suggest is you look more closely at how the hub/wheelhub/bearing/driveshaft is assembled.

 

I can only agree what's said.

 

The, the hub may be a quite tight fit into the inner bearing races (outside and inside), but only the one on the driveshaft side will actually keep it from falling apart, and it's not worth risking, if the tolerances are on the wrong side they may sit quite loose.

 

Other than that the wheel bearing is not made for beeing used without beeing pre-tensioned so you may as well ruin the bearings by towing it without the driveshaft in place.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

Well there you go Rob I've been out numbered.

Everyone here seems to think the hub will just pull out of the bearing with ease.

From my experience this never is never the case.

 

Looks like your going to have to pay (around £150) for it to be trailered trailer then.

 

But speaking from experience after towing mine there and back as in the photo I think you'll be O.K.

 

 

Edit and if you're worried about k***ering the bearings. Just change them after getting the bay painted. Assuming with this level of restoration you would change them anyway!

Edited January 25, 2008 by ALEX

[Rob Thomson 6]

To be quite honest I'm not sure why all this came up in the first place... did I ever say I wanted to tow the car anywhere?! And if I did want to tow it I've got a lovely Brian James trailer I use for the rally car and a big strong Mondeo to lug it around with...

 

To add my thoughts to the conversation above... years ago I took the engine (and driveshafts) out of my old 309 and then rolled it out of the garage out of the way. By the time it had been rolled back into the garage a couple of weeks later the bearing had come apart. Not by very much, but enough for me to need a new bearing. I'd never tow a car on the public road without driveshafts fitted.

 

Anyway, my 205 rebuild... coming along nicely. Probably.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

I'd never tow a car on the public road without driveshafts fitted.

 

Must be just me who likes to live dangerously then!

 

I thought CW running back to a burining car to save his camera would have backed me up on this one! though

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Hehe, it wasn't my camera so I had too!

[base-1 17]

Towing point - yes you do need the driveshafts in, however you can just remove the hub end knuckle form a knackered old shaft and use that. Problem solved

 

And back on topic - Nice project Rob

[pip470 61]

Sorry Rob, nice project. Good to see that you want it as peugeot intended. Im sorry for bringing up the towing dispute, it wasnt meant to be a dispute. I know you never even mentioned towing but i believe especially on good forums like this that something that could be potentially be a very nasty accident, it should be dealt with straight away for the information of others. I knew that towing a car would knacker the bearings, I had been warned but What i did not know was the hub could depart from the bearing still attatched to the wheel. I learnt very fast as approaching a round about towing my beloved pug behind on a stiff bar and my mate in the back steering, that both wheels simultainiously came of and over took me, with my mate with no breaks or steering the stiff bar jacknifed and bumped into the back of my tow car. To top it all off, it was raining and even worse was the trauma of trying to get a jack under a car thats sat on its belly on a busy roundabout. The bearings were screwed and i struggled like hell to try and get the wheels back on. Needless to say the police were called and many pictures were took and fingers pointed. I wanted to make absolutly clear, you can not tow a car without the driveshafts fitted to save someone the embarasment and trouble i had to go through. Phill

[24seven 104]

makes me wish my 205 was a miami.

[Rob Thomson 6]

I'm still making progress at the moment, albeit slowly. I've been buying loads of bits - nearly giving my friendly Peugeot dealership parts man a coronary in the process. The rear beam is with Anthony for a precautionary rebuild; fingers crossed it'll be ok but with 126k on the clock I'm not counting my chickens. Last weekend I delivered the gearbox to Miles for a rebuild as it had been a bit reluctant to engage 2nd and 3rd gears, and I got up bright and early yesterday morning to collect it. What a service. Thanks Miles.

 

 

A lot of this weekend has been spent selling the rally car (sob, sob... only the one Pug now), but I found an hour or two this afternoon to whip the cylinder head off the engine. This was my first experience of removing an 8V cylinder head although I've done a few Mi16s. The tensioner wound me up nicely until I realised it was much easier just to compress the spring with my big fat fingers than try to use that bizarre 'cam' on the back of the block. Anyway, it didn't take too long to get the head off and ready to go for a rebuild and skim next week...

 

 

 

 

The cam seems in perfect condition with no visible wear or scoring to either the lobes or bearing surfaces...

 

 

The bores seem very good too, with no wear ridge and very little scoring. The factory honing marks are still very visible. Cylinder No.2 has the most scoring although it's barely visible to the naked eye and not detectable by touch. The camera's picked it up quite clearly, though...

 

 

Thoughts? I think I'll just ignore it; the engine didn't smoke or use any oil and the plugs all look the same and healthy. I'm vaguely tempted to rebuild the bottom end while the engine's on the stand - it almost seems stupid not to - but that's a bit out of my comfort zone amd since the oil pressure seemed fine I think I'll leave well alone. Hmmm...

 

More soon.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

Yeah change the rings at least, They're not that expensive anyway.

[Rob Thomson 6]

It's been absolutely ages since I've updated this. I've been spending far too many hours in the garage trying to get the 205 back on the road before I up-sticks and move to sunny Weston-super-Mare. At the same time work's been a complete nightmare, and I've also been busy trying to find somewhere to live and doing all the things that one has to do to a house that's been occupied by two lads for three years before returning it to its rightful owners. I move house this weekend and decided a couple of weeks ago that I wasn't going to get the 205 running before moving so it'll be dragged down the M5 on a trailer behind the trusty Mondeo at some point over the weekend.

 

On Sunday I put the suspension back on and rolled it out of the garage for the first time since January. It was covered in dust and all manner of other s*it, so I spent five minutes splashing some water over it so the new neighbours won't be too appauled when it gets pushed into the street. Whilst washing it I managed to snap the aerial off the roof, so that's something else to add to the long list of outstanding jobs.

 

Anyway, I love how this little car looks...

 

 

 

The engine bay rust's been repaired, treated and resprayed. Not a bad first effort with a few cans from Halfords...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously there's quite a bit of plumbing and electrical stuff to do, but most of the under-bonnet stuff is done. The gearbox has been rebuilt. The engine's had a head skim and rebuild. I stopped short of rebuilding the bottom-end, but had a look at a couple of shells and all looked fine. I've re-made the instrument wiring loom with proper water-proof connectors and all kinds of fancy overbraid and heatshrink. Everything that can be replaced has been replaced.

 

The front suspension has been given the same treatment. The only original components are the springs and the steering rack, everything else has been replaced. I got a bit carried away and stripped and re-painted the front subframe. F*ck knows why I bothered because it'll get hammered down the lanes, but it'll look pretty when the MOT chap puts it on its ramps... It's still lacking brakes. I've got new calipers waiting to go on once it gets to its new home...

 

 

The rear beam has been rebuilt by Anthony. This needs to come off again before the car hits the road because the front bushes are completely f*cked and I didn't have time to replace them before the move. Obviously I need to do something about the brakes too, and the bodywork could do with the same treatment as the engine bay before the rust gets more developed. Dampers are new Peugeot items (as are the fronts)...

 

 

I'm amazed how many hours I've put in and yet how far I still have to go, but I've done everything to the absolute best of my ability and haven't taken any shortcuts with anything. I've been working so hard lately that I'm completely burnt out and need a few weekends sitting in a comfy chair before I spend any more time in the garage, but it'll be back on the road before summer... honest.

[Grim.Badger 15]

That looks really great Rob, but I'd say keep up with the work as there doesn't seem much left and its too easy to sit back and forget about it once you've stopped.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks its easier to push the cambelt tensioner back than fiddle with that damn cam I also like your ride height, I actually think pugs look better side on with the standard height but then I like pepper pots so maybe I'm just odd

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Well Rob its just looking great, to say the least! I like your new super-air cooled rear drum brakes LOL!

But seriously it looks like you have done the lions share of the work and you are on the home run, so keep at it buddy, I find posting a diary on a forum helps keep me motivated to keep going somehow, but each to their own.

Out of interest how expensive were new Peugeot dampers?

[Rob Thomson 6]

Out of interest how expensive were new Peugeot dampers?

Off the top of my head the fronts are about £80 each and the rears are £35 each, plus 17.5% for the taxman.

[Rob Thomson 6]

It's been absolutely chuffing ages since I've updated this, mainly because it's been absolutely chuffing ages since I've done anything to the car... I delivered it to Weston on a trailer, dumped it in the garage, and didn't touch it for two months. Then I rolled it onto the drive and took some bits off again, and left it for another month.

 

Finally I've had a day free and have been able to bolt some bits back on again.

 

First up, I've finished all the suspension and transmission jobs at the front. That was all more-or-less done anyway, but I replaced one of the driveshafts that seemed a bit loose. I've splashed out on all new brakes, and enjoyed bolting those on this morning. The braided hoses are the only deviation from standard anywhere on the car (until I get round to fitting my GpA beam mounts)...

 

 

The engine bay's just about finished too. I decided I didn't like the silicon hoses I'd bought, so ripped them out and replaced with new OE. I had to sort out a few issues with the wiring, and then it took ages to get everything sitting neatly. The engine instrument loom's all new too. I ran out of time today, but all the engine bay needs now is the rad, washer bottle and AFM re-fitting.

 

 

It's starting to look quite nice, especially with the grill stuck back on...

 

 

There's still loads to do, though. The beam needs to come off again for the mounts to be replaced and for the brakes to be fitted. While it's off I'm going to sort out the surface rust on the boot floor, which I'm dreading since it's guaranteed that I'll end up covered in all kinds of s*it. There's loads of trim that needs re-fitting and/or adjusting to fit properly. I need to do some wiring under the dash where the old alarm has been ripped out. The exhaust needs fitting. And there are hundreds of other things to fix too. Then I'll have to try to start it for the first time in six months having had everything apart... can't really see it working on the first turn of the key.

 

Hopefully I should have it going in a couple of weeks... Maybe.

[Roman 0]

great job done mate but i hoppe you dont leave him on axle outdoor over night

[M@tt 77]

great work!!

 

love the last pic, steering lock on a car on axle stands! you must have extrememly dedicated car thieves round with you

[Rob Thomson 6]

but i hoppe you dont leave him on axle outdoor over night

It's been like that for the last month...

 

love the last pic, steering lock on a car on axle stands! you must have extremely dedicated car thieves round with you

It's just easier to store it on the wheel than anywhere else!

[miamichris 9]

nice work mate!

 

your project spurs me on with my own miami rebuild you're getting on rightly so stick at it and you'll soon have it back on the road! can't wait till i'm at the stage you are and it's nearly back on the road (i'm probably around page 2 of your build ) keep it up!

[Rob Thomson 6]

It runs.

 

Had a very busy weekend nailing bits back on (the first time I've done much to it in ages), and then this evening I felt brave enough to turn the key. She fired up first time, for the first time since January. Just needs a few evenings of tinkering and she'll be ready for the MOT.