Steering Issues: Stiffness And Wandering

[Furiousd 0]

Finally got around to replacing the lower steering column on my 205 at the weekend and the old part was very seized in one of its plains of movement. I replaced it with a used but not seized part and although the steering doesn't go light and stiff as before it is still stiffer than when I first got the car? (ie will not self centre when you let go of the 'wheel).

 

Also it is still wandering about the same as it was, what else could be causing this as the wishbone bushes look to be ok and have only been on the car 12 months?

 

Any ideas?

 

Ta

[hengti 2]

if you haven't already, have the tracking checked

[Furiousd 0]

The tracking was just done before I started having problems, although this was about 6 months ago!

 

Should the tracking be checked as a matter of course seeing as the steering columns been messed about with? I have noticed that the steering wheel is now slightly off centre.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Check your top mounts, I had a mate with a Citroen ZX with steering that was very stiff and would not self centre, the top mount bearings were seized solid. Pair of new bearings and it was nice and light once more.

[Bakes100 20 1 Cars]

On my 306 the top mount bearing and the cup were not aligned correctly so the steering didnt self centre it just stayed where you pointed it, mite be worth checking that out!

 

Get the front wheels up in the air and turn the front wheels and see if they move easily or are tight.

 

Hope this helps

[hengti 2]

i'd defo have it re-tracked first if your wheel's now off centre.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Why on earth will it need re-tracking? The components which would affect steering geometry, namely steering rack track rods, and track rod ends, have not been touched.

 

The reason the steering wheel is slightly offset it that the column has most likely been put back onto the steering rack a spline or two rotated from where it was originally. Therefore the steering wheel is misaligned. Realignment of the steering wheel is needed, e.g. remove wheel from top of column, and reset in correct position.

 

I still stand by my initial diagnosis of top mounts for the stiff steering TBH.

 

As for wandering, if you have checked lower arm balljoints and bushes and are 100% certain they are OK then I'd look at the rear beam next.

[pip470 61]

I had stiff steering after a replacing the steering rack, it was because i had slid the uj onto the rack and inserted the bolt through and then tightened it. I then mounted the rack to the subframe which put the uj under preload. I know you havnt changed the rack but have you but any of the other column under any pressure, If unsure disconect the uj in the foot well and see if the stifness is from the column with the uj disconected. You need to just eliminate things one by one.

 

Toms right about the steering wheel being off center, either take steering wheel of or disconect the uj again and move it round a couple of splines. Phill

[hengti 2]

i think it's good practise to re-check the tracking after having disturbed the steering or suspension components - settings are easily disturbed and the tracking doesn't need to be far 'out' to noticeably affect steering feel.

 

you could take it for a free tracking check somewhere as a first step. probably simpler than starting by removing the struts to replace the top mount bearings!

[jackherer 543]

Why on earth will it need re-tracking? The components which would affect steering geometry, namely steering rack track rods, and track rod ends, have not been touched.

 

The reason the steering wheel is slightly offset it that the column has most likely been put back onto the steering rack a spline or two rotated from where it was originally. Therefore the steering wheel is misaligned. Realignment of the steering wheel is needed, e.g. remove wheel from top of column, and reset in correct position.

 

I agree 100%, its a dreadful idea to change the tracking on a car with the steering wheel/column misaligned. You will end up with more lock one way than the other and your toe out on turns (ackermann steering) will be wrong resulting in nasty handling defects.

[jackherer 543]

i think it's good practise to re-check the tracking after having disturbed the steering or suspension components - settings are easily disturbed and the tracking doesn't need to be far 'out' to noticeably affect steering feel.

 

you could take it for a free tracking check somewhere as a first step. probably simpler than starting by removing the struts to replace the top mount bearings!

 

NO, they will set the toe correctly but if the wheel is misaligned on the column the rack wont be centered. The wheel has to be centered first or things will just be made worse.

[hengti 2]

i think we're all heading in roughly the right direction; it's a group effort!

[Furiousd 0]

Thanks for all the advise, been away a couple of days so just had chance to log on. I didn't fully understand whats meant by putting the uj under load? I'm not terribly mechanical but this was a fairly simple swap over. I disconnected it from the rack 1st then in the footwell before pulling the old one out. Then the oposite to refit. It was awkward to get the splines back in again and I must have slightly misaligned them whilst I was at it.

 

What should I have done to make sure it was back on straight? and is there something i've not done that could have put load on the joint?

 

the steering is noticebly stiffer than before i replaced the joint which makes me think ive done something wrong, but the wandering was present already so the tracking may well be out.

 

Thanks for the advice, I let you know how I get on.

 

Cheers

[jackherer 543]

What should I have done to make sure it was back on straight?

 

You are supposed to mark the column position relative to the rack before removing it with tipp ex or something, its stated in the Haynes manual.

 

Once you have lost the center point its tricky to find it again especially if the tracking is altered but what you're aiming for is the steering wheel pointing straight while going forwards (obviously) but also it must turn the exact same amount to the left and right.

[Furiousd 0]

Thanks, I think i've a better idea where I'm going with this now. In order:

 

1, Correct steering wheel (Its only slightly out but is off to the left a little)

2, Have tracking checked to rule this out. The wandering was present prior to column change.

3, Get a garage to check top mount bearings and ball joints etc and hopefully sort it!

 

Can I just check whether it is better to adjust the steering wheel with the uj or the steering wheel? I imagine its easier to move the wheel as to to move the uj now will require it to be completely removed and refitted at a different angle?

[Furiousd 0]

I've just taken the car to a local garage to have them look over it. Their prognosis was that its most likely the new joint has seized. It now feels worse than the old one so I'll have to disconnect the joint again and check this 1st to see if it’s knacked.

 

The tracking is fine although their is a small amount of play in the rack, the mechanics opinion was that the seized joint would exaggerate the feel of the wheels following the pot holes etc.

 

Failing this top mounts could well be it (As advised by Tom) although as the problem immediately followed the fitment of the new joint this is where they'd look 1st.

 

Any idea's where the best place to buy a new universal joint from and the cost if this does need replacing (Again)?

 

Annoyingly the joint was completely free prior to fitting so could I have damaged it in the process? It was a swine to get the splined end back into the upper column!

[hengti 2]

there was a rumour that Euro Car Parts could supply new lower columns for about £30 a while ago but when i last tried they didn't list them. the genuine part isn't as catastrophically expensive as it could have been from Peugeot at about £60.

 

your best bet is probably a second hand joint although i'm not sure how it might have been possible to damage the joint you have whilst fitting it; best start by checking it is definitely the U/J in the lower column (there's another in the upper column).

 

i dare say there'll be someone closer to you who might be able to help you out with parts if needs be but, if it helps, i've a spare upper column and a spare lower column (the lower column is circular pinion though; yours might be square pinion).

Edited January 18, 2008 by hengti

[Furiousd 0]

I've just checked and the lower column joint is fine. The problem must be either the steering rack or could it be the top mount bearings?

 

The joint still moves freely whilst its unattached from the rack but the wheels are stiff to move left and right whilst its off.

 

whats the most likely problem/whats best to check 1st?

 

Ta

Chris

[pip470 61]

How are you trying to move the wheels whilst the column is disconected? If you jack both front wheels in the air and turn the wheels left to right with the column disconected you will be able to feel if there is a great amount of resistance. Basicly its going to come down to you checking things one by one by looking or dismantling to narrow down where the stiffness is coming from.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Disconnect the rack from the front struts by splitting the track rod end balljoints. You can then try moving the rack by pulling on the track rod end. You should be able to pull it by hand without too much difficulty. If you can't then it points to the rack is U/S. If you can, then it points to the top mounts U/S.

[Furiousd 0]

Yesterday I disconnected the column joint again to check if it had siezed and it was fine. I repositioned the splines to centre the steering wheel correctly and noticed it now went in a lot easier, this also cured the stiffness.

 

Not sure why this would be? must have been at a funny angle and not letting the column spin round as it should. Just thought i'd let anyone who's interested know!

 

Thanks for all help and suggestions.

 

Chris

[jackherer 543]

In theory two U/Js can be out of phase but I didn't think the design of the 205 column allowed them to be connected wrongly. as you would have to join the upper and lower column together wrongly and they should be keyed with a flat side.