Correct Harness Mounting Points

[Dan Ingram 1]

I have some Sabelt 3 point harnesses to go in to my car. I've been searching and doing alot of reading and i'm pretty certain as to where to mount them. I'd just like a bit of confirmation to make sure I have them mounted in the safest way.

 

The side straps appear to be quite clear as to where to mount them, one in the original seatbelt rail bolt hole

 

 

And the other side bolted through the exhaust tunnel with a plate on the underside

 

 

The bit im confused about is where to mount the rear strap. Alot of people seem to have mounted them in the lower rear seat belt hole

 

 

I can easily mount them there but other information seems to suggest that this would be too much of an angle downwards to conform to safety regulations. So basically i'd like to know if thats right or not, if not would I be better to mount them somewhere else. The upper rear seat belt mounting hole is a possibility

 

 

If thats still no good can somebody suggest a better location. I know the best option would be harness bars on a roll cage but I dont have one of those so thats not possible. All help on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks Dan

[gti_al 1]

I looked into this a bit...

 

It probably isn't what you want to hear, but i suspect in an accident you would be better off with the standard seatbelt than a 2'' 3 point. If the harness is to keep you in position though, the rear belt point will be fine - just don't crash

[welshpug 1,657]

I really would advise against harnesses without a cage, IIRC its called submarining.

 

basically you wouldn't have a chance if it rolled, the roof would crush your spine, at least with normal belts and no cage you'll be pushed to one side.

[Dan Ingram 1]

Sorry just to add there a 3" 3 point.

[Baz 421]

3" isn't so bad then. (spreads load better)

 

'Submarining' is as it sounds, you'll get this with any belts/harnesses that don't have crutch straps. Under heavy braking or a frontal impact, you slide down/forward under the belts.

 

I'd rather use the lower rear belt mount than the upper one, but ideally a bit higher. Basically so the belt holds you, not the seat.

Edited December 29, 2007 by BazGTMi

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

i'd also not use harnesses without a roll cage and definitely not if it's a daily driver

(not practical at all not being able to lean forward and it's also very boring when you

have to strap in for x times a day!).

 

bucket seats with standard belts are just fine and perform good both on road and track.

 

some people fit harnesses with standard seats which is just stupid .

 

 

anyway, to answer your question, the best way is to use a "harness bar".

 

that's a bar that would go between upper rear belt points and would provide an adequate

high and straight point for strapping your harnesses to and it stiffens the rear end of the

car a little bit too.

[Dan Ingram 1]

Its not a daily driver its for track use and the odd weekend blast, also going to be fitted with Cobra Imolas.

 

I understand that if you roll the car your not going to be able to duck out of the way but surely under any other circumstance correctly fitted harnesses would be safer than standard seat belts?

[welshpug 1,657]

not safet at all unfortunately, I'd rather rag doll than have my spine crushed because I couldn't move.

[josh1990 0]

Same here. Rag doll pretty much saved me.

Also if he is tracking it would it not be safer to have a cage?

[gti_al 1]

Its not a daily driver its for track use and the odd weekend blast, also going to be fitted with Cobra Imolas.

 

I understand that if you roll the car your not going to be able to duck out of the way but surely under any other circumstance correctly fitted harnesses would be safer than standard seat belts?

 

I would go with the seatbelts until you have a cage. Not only are they are nusiance, you are strapping yourself to stuff that will move in a crash. A mate of mine rolled a 205 on a track at high speed, and his car ended up a very strange shape .... like triangular, with everything torn apart. He got thrown around lots (his helmet bounced off the ground out the window!), but he was ok, and the roof ended up somewhere it really shouldn't have been. I suspect it was a good thing he wasn't upright

 

With a cage you strap yourself into an area that should be protected if you roll. Mounts should hold up, and the cage should stay the same shape

 

A datto 1600 i know also rolled recently and ended up with a hole in the tunnel. I wouldn't want my harness mounted there

 

My point - don't go upside down at high speed... but think really carefully about what will happen if you do

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

To prevent submarining with standard seats belts you should try out a CG Lock.

 

I have one of these in my GTi & they are brilliant.

 

I've been meaning to look at creating a group buy / discount scheme for them through this forum, I got mine through MLR which had a discount code scheme running & I've seen them on offer in various car mags with a code to get a discount.

 

Graham.

[jackherer 543]

To prevent submarining with standard seats belts you should try out a CG Lock.

 

I have one of these in my GTi & they are brilliant.

 

I've been meaning to look at creating a group buy / discount scheme for them through this forum, I got mine through MLR which had a discount code scheme running & I've seen them on offer in various car mags with a code to get a discount.

 

Graham.

 

I'm definitely in for a group buy, I've been thinking of getting one or two of those for ages.

[Jer309GTi 3]

Me too. I was going to put harnesses with buckets in my 405 (without a cage), but I'm definately sticking with the standard seat belts now

[mogsman 2]

I'm in if we can get a group buy.

Ian

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

OK, Thanks for the positive replies.

 

I'll contact CG Lock in the new year & see about arranging a discount code or group buy scheme through them.

 

The one I joined in on MLR you ordered them from the CGlock website & they are sent directly to you so no extra postage from me on like with the studs group buys I've done previously.

 

Graham.

[boldy205 75]

how will standard belts stop this submarining then?

[VisaGTi16v 1]

If I knew where it was I would show you the photo of a mini my friend rolled at Lydden many, many years ago during a race with no cage. He would absolutely have died if he had a 3/4 point on. As he had a normal belt he was able to slide sideways as the roofline came down to the top of the bucket seat.

 

Unsure what belts it had in it, but a compression of the spine caused by the Sierras roof that rolled coming down is why Frank Williams is wheel chair bound.

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

last night i pulled my lap belt as tight as i could then got the shoulder belt to lock as close to my person as i could . feels great and i bet with the the cglock youll not have tight shoulder belt . tempted myself

[welshpug 1,657]

If I knew where it was I would show you the photo of a mini my friend rolled at Lydden many, many years ago during a race with no cage. He would absolutely have died if he had a 3/4 point on. As he had a normal belt he was able to slide sideways as the roofline came down to the top of the bucket seat.

 

Unsure what belts it had in it, but a compression of the spine caused by the Sierras roof that rolled coming down is why Frank Williams is wheel chair bound.

 

Bugger, I wondered what happened for him to be wheelchair bound

 

makes it seem quite foolish to even consider not having a cage.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

I could maybe understand not having a cage in a modern hot hatch if its only going to be used for the odd track day with no modifications etc but for anything more or an old made of paper mache hot hatch like ours, a cage is essential. You can get a cheap omp for £300 or something which is nothing if you are paying £150+ for a single track day anyway (plus petrol and so on)

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

As im about to fit a cage and harnesses to mine where/how exactley is it best to mount them, its a 4 point harness and all 4 points are the bolt on type fixings, i was jut going to weld a threaded plate to the floor pan to fit them, is this not a good idea??

 

Paul