[car_overhaul] The Cherry Red Project

[gti-si 0]

Well, as some of you may know, I posted a topic the other day about some rust that I'd found behind the headlights. After further inspection, I've found quite abit of rot on the front end, some superficial, some structural. I had planned to get converted to a GTi6 lump by Jonnie205 here on the forum, however, after finding the rust, I had to reconsider (sorry again to let you down Jonnie).

 

Obviously I need to fix the rust immediatly, I just can't leave it/ignore it any longer, it's not going to get better by itself! After a hard think the other night, i've got my mind made up...A full on restoration! Now this is my first time doing ANYTHING like this, i've only ever dabbled with cars in the past. I've gained alot of knowledge from this forum and would like to think I know more about cars than the average joe , but this is not from experience, just many wasted (or not as the case may be) hours on this forum .

 

Over the next few weeks I intend to get alot done, mainly as i've got time off from uni and not alot to do! My first port of call is to fix the front end. I'm hoping to clear all the rust from the bay and inner wings etc, then get the bay sprayed. This will be coupled with the same idea for the interior (fight the rust and get it sprayed). My friends uncle in law has a compressor and can spray so he's going to sort the the engine bay and interior. Once this is done im going to get the exterior sprayed aswell due to increasingly bad laquer peel, hoepfully for under £1000 if I can (will get the car ready to spray minus the prep if you get my drift). I'd like to hear peoples general thoughts about that? Also any recommendations for a good spray shop in the north?

 

So, First update I guess

 

I've stripped down the front end to get a better look at the rust im facing. There's some quite extensive rust in the offside inner wing which got worse as I put a wire brush drill attatchment to it. Some advise on what to do here would be great:

 

Inner wing rust

 

I started to tackle the rust on the nearside headlamp frame, some of it was pretty bad but im getting there with it. Im going to make sure all the rot is gone from both sides then acid treat it, get some body filler on it to smooth it over as theres a few deeper bits where the rust was heavier and then get it primered.

 

Front end nice and stripped

Offsdide

Offside after a spot of grinding

 

Now the worst bit i've found so far, which is most definatly structural is the offside front arch. It looked like so when I first got a look at it:

 

Front Arch

Ahh deary me...After a poke

 

Any ideas on how to tackle this?

 

Amongst other things, before I could even start to tackle this, I had to sort out somewhere to do it! I have a garage but it was absolutly full of sh*t, had no light and was pretty damn cold. So me and my friend Ross pretty much spent all day rigging up lighting, heat and some working room. We ended up with light...I think thats about the best we could've hoped for really.

 

From this

To this

Ghetto electricity

 

I hope health and safety don't read this....

 

As far as garages go, it's pretty small... working conditions are quite tight, but it will do I think...

 

However, so far, this has to be the best pruchase i've ever made in relation to the 205...

 

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg253/g...21122007222.jpg

 

 

Well, first update done, wish me luck!

Edited January 6, 2008 by cybernck

[timmsy19 3]

good luck with that one mate.

 

some of the rust doesnt look to bad. as long as its not gone right through it should be fine to grind it all done to bare metal and prep and paint

 

at least you wont have to replace any panels

[jonnie205 1]

That dont look too bad at all to me, i would think long and hard about a full restoration, it can gobble up many many hours and costs can escalate. Fair play for what you are doing there but good qulaity restorations are very very hard work. No worries about the conversion mate, i got 1 to finish off at the min and then another to start plus going away to the states in a few weeks to run 5 cars in the american rally championship

[GLPoomobile 958]

I'd agree, it really doesn't look too bad. You look at some of the 'rust' topics on the forum and a lot of 205s have really rotten front ends. Apart from a few holes, it looks like H565 is mostly suffering from surface corrosion. I started reading the topic and thought the worst, but glad it's not too serious. Even the offside inner wing doesn't look too bad, and that was the worst area when I had it.

 

If it was me doing it, I would seriously consider cutting out the worst affected areas and welding in new metal, as you don't want to spend a lot of time and money treating the rust as best you can only for it to start bubbling up again in 12 months time.

 

I'd also suggest just getting a blowover done on the roof if it's getting scabby as the the red is still quite strong from the previous respray so shouldn't be too hard to colour match.

 

I take it you'll be fixing the rust in the boot and under the rear seat too.

 

Also, is the decal still missing from the drivers door or did you sort a replacement?

[jonnie205 1]

yep i would cut out rot using a plasma cutter or some 1mm cutting disks on a grinder. The fold some sheet metal to shape and mig weld in place. You then want to skim fill over the whole plate, sand smooth then primer and finally paint top coat. Mig welding is very difficult on that type of job as you you are dealing with rusty thin metal and it can look a mess, i would practise on some thin car panel type metal then go for it it with the mig on your car.

[welshpug 1,661]

have a look for "Paintguy"s thread, IIRC he has done similar repairs to his, and "Tom Fenton" has done more extensive work in the same area on his 205 but that is documented on the Peugeot Sport website - www.psooc.com

[GLPoomobile 958]

Dan (Taylorspug) also documents the same repairs on his silver Mi, but I don't know if the pics are currently available as the hosting site was down last time I looked.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

To be perfectly honest that is nothing, certainly NOT "extensive" rust! You've obviously never owned such as a Mk2 Escort or a Mini!

On the drivers side I would get the last traces of rust off, then a few coats of Jenolite to stabilise the surface, then etch primer and paint. On the drivers side yes it is ever so slightly worse but in all honesty it is NOT an MOT fail, as it is not within 30cm of a suspension mounting point, and it is not jagged and external that could injure someone. To do it properly get a small patch welded on it then treat and paint as per the other side.

 

Please take heed of the comments above regarding how much time and money a restoration will take. I'd treat this on your car as a running repair to be done over a weekend and carry on using it. I have seen SO many cars taken off the road for stuff like this never to go back on again. Please take this in the spirit it is intended, not trying to knock you, but in my view you are just creating work for yourself.

[jonnie205 1]

This is a medium and very common resto on an escort, floor chopped out front and back, new inner and outer sill and new chassis rail

[gti-si 0]

Ok, ambitions aside. I do realise there is alot of work involved with what I want to do and also, a full restoration is a dramatic over statement (it was 3 oclock in the morning, no-ones sane at that time). I also know that even with the best intentions, cars get stripped to restore then the owners loose interest and its a giant waste. This said, theres alot of work I want done to the car and it will get done.

 

Im very happy that the general concensous is that the rust is nothing, this is good and makes it even more plausable to fix myself. Again, like I say, i've no experience with things like this, so to me, any rust looks bad. With regard to welding in new plate, which areas should i do this? Inner wing and front arch? I will get someone else to do this for me, it will save me time and probably won't cost all that much either, theres not alot (I realise thats abit of a contradiction to what i've just said).

 

GLP, its not just the laquer that was making me want a respray. It was other factors such as the slightly different shade door, dings and dents, a few areas where its been touched up with a pen and some rust on the boot near the windowseal. All very small but when tallied up it makes a difference. I know its not necassarilly needed, but why not? It'll look and be right when it's done and thats how I want it. A blowover will suffice but once i've gone to all the different areas I might aswell have it all done.

 

I know its diving in feet first, it must seem like I have no idea what im going to get myself into. Also, I appreciate everyone of your comments, I'm not taking them as a knock down, more putting things into perspective with a little constructive critasism which everyone needs at some point. I don't think restorations are a walk in park and to do it properly would cost thousands. I guess to define my intentions without using the word "restoration" would be better, as my idea and a more experienced persons idea will vary, alot.

 

I'm going to get rid of the rust up front, in the boot and under the seats

Refresh major suspension bushes

Replace suspension (my nearside front dampers leaking I think)

Paint the engine bay, on harder thinking, i'll leave the interior as it's perfectly fine

Have a respray done

Replace all wheel bearings

Find and fix the water leaks to the cabin

Convert to a GTI6 engine

Refurbish wheel

Get door decals replicated

 

Now, thats a sh*tload of work, I know. Money wise, im working with around £3000 over the course of the next 4 months. I'm not going to lack time, ambition, and i'm hoping someone will come in and say thats perfectly doable with £3000. So whats to stop me?

 

It's not money I need to spend, I know. Money isn't something I'm too bothered about right now though, you only live once and all that. I want to be able to look at my car knowing it's done, and i've done it (well, alot of it anyway ). I think in all honesty, if it costs £XXX to do that, then f*ck it, it's worth it.

 

Again, thanks for the comments guys, hopefully ive not come across as too much of a pr*ck there

Edited December 24, 2007 by gti-si

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The panels new are pretty cheap to fix the rust, Just cut out what you need and replace, It work's out allot quicker than grinding rust and treating it as it will always come back yr after yr or bodging it up. The complete side wing inc strut top is only £100.00, headlight panels are quite dear in comparsison thou at around £65.00 each

[gti-si 0]

Is that all genuine Pug prices or pattern stuff? Sounds quite an attractive alternative, much more permanent solution too. Is there much skilled work (i.e welding) involded in say, fitting two side wings and headlight pannels?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

All OE Pug panel's, I'd never use pattern parts (Unless you couldn't get anything else) as they rust and don;t fit so by the time you make them fit it's cheaper to buy the proper panels

 

The headlight panels are just spotwelded on so easy to change, the inner wing's are the same but more involved but if you can weld it's not a problem

[GLPoomobile 958]

I'm going to get rid of the rust up front, in the boot and under the seats

Refresh major suspension bushes

Replace suspension (my nearside front dampers leaking I think)

Paint the engine bay, on harder thinking, i'll leave the interior as it's perfectly fine

Have a respray done

Replace all wheel bearings

Find and fix the water leaks to the cabin

Convert to a GTI6 engine

Refurbish wheel

Get door decals replicated

 

Now, thats a sh*tload of work, I know. Money wise, im working with around £3000 over the course of the next 4 months. I'm not going to lack time, ambition, and i'm hoping someone will come in and say thats perfectly doable with £3000. So whats to stop me?

 

It's not money I need to spend, I know. Money isn't something I'm too bothered about right now though, you only live once and all that. I want to be able to look at my car knowing it's done, and i've done it (well, alot of it anyway ). I think in all honesty, if it costs £XXX to do that, then f*ck it, it's worth it.

 

Again, thanks for the comments guys, hopefully ive not come across as too much of a pr*ck there

 

Your list covers pretty much everything I would have done had I chosen to keep H565. Actually, my list was even more comprehensive and came to about 2k more!

 

You can strike suspension bushes off the list, they were all (and I mean all) replaced in the year before you bought her. As Bob Hoskins says "every little helps"

[gti-si 0]

Cheers Steve, every little does indeed help.

 

You can always throw a few things in i've forgot/not noticied if you want . Past that list, find it hard to think what else needs doing really!

[welshpug 1,661]

I'd leave the wheel bearings well alone unless they are shot, you're just making more work for yourself

 

not too dissimilar to what my plans are for mine, but I'm not going top do any of it for another year or so (gives me more time to practice welding on the 45ft trailers in work) mine looks to be much worse behind the passenger headlamp, but nowhere as bad as the pics I saw of Tom Fenton's one.

 

oh, and I'm staying 8 valve...

[gti-si 0]

Sounds good welshpug. Well two if not three of the wheel bearings are shot, these willl need replacing. Also forgot, need to replace the long driveshaft aswell as theres a small hole in the CV boot from what I can remember. The bearings will be a piece off piss, i've got two spare hubs for the front and my dads got a press in his workshop. Will just be a case of tarting the hubs up, get the new bearings pressed in and replace the hubs

Edited December 25, 2007 by gti-si

[GLPoomobile 958]

I was going to say, if it was me and the budget wasn't too tight, I'd slap on some good (non ovalled and with sound bearings) 1.9 hubs and replace the shafts. I only say this as it makes future brake upgrades easier and I remember the shafts and wheel bearings being a bit 'iffy' when I had the car. But for the benefit of any members coming across this in a search, you don't HAVE to swap to 1.9 hubs and shafts when doing a GTI6 conversion.

[gti-si 0]

Cheers for clearing that up Steve. 1.9 hubs and wheel bearings now sorted thanks to pip470. I picked up a long driveshaft from oli-pug back when I bought the car, however obviously i''l have to buy the 1.9 items. How much are these new? Or can I only get reconditioned oness?

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

good work , but you must fit the gaurd over the disc. we've all removed it to get into that awkward spot now and again , but beleive me it hurts when you forget its not there!! also always wear eye protection. i've had rusty metal removed from my eye twice now and that hurts too

 

now thats the grumpy old fart bit out of the way. as johnny says get some 1mm (stainless steel cut off) cutting discs , they make cutting thin steel so much neater. get a 10 pack off ebay for less than a tenner. Also if you have a dremmel type tool get some of the reinforced cut off discs too . they are fantastic on the thin pugs . with all bodywork there is a fair ammount of skill involved which can only be built up by experience and trial/error but if you have good tools and the right tools to begin with it will make the job much easier and look so much better. ie if your welding get the best mask you can as it will improve your welding 100 percent .

 

for rust treatment and underbody protection i use Frosts ( www.frost.co.uk ) . I find Dinitrol products are far superior to the 'off the shelf' rust convertors and underbody protection like kurust and waxoyl etc and seem to keep rust at bay far far longer .

[gti-si 0]

Cheers for those pics McPikie, looks like the plate was sufficient haha. Think i'll do something like that with the wing. I've ordered a new complete front panel, so thats the headlamp pannel rust sorted too.

 

Pugnut, yeah, your 100% right with the grumpy old fart bit, i've already had a piece of red hot rustic steel in my eye... haha, bought some goggles yesterday. Will take your and jonnies advice and get some thin steel cutting disks. Im hoping I should do alright shaping etc, i've done alot of dressing work on pump spares, nothing like the precision on car body work but i've become more familiar with using the tools.

[gti-si 0]

Update for today, sorry i've no pics to post (only using a phone and the battery died) but i'll post some up tomorrow. Now got an engine crane thanks to pip470, very nice fella. So I've disconnected all the ancillaries and wiring loom etc. Engines ready to come out tomorrow morning. Then i'll go about cleaning up the bay and seeing what the paints like. Got some very nice 1.9 hubs with new bearings now, just need some brakes to match.

 

On a silly note, I forgot to get hold of a sump plug key, any ideas where I can get one? It's probably a silly idea, but unless I can get one from halfrauds or a local motorfactor it'll have to come out with the oil in.

 

Second thing, i've not got a 'special tool' for the final drive unit, what can I use? Don't really want to let it drop into the housing as it's just more arseache to deal with.

[pip470 61]

Hi si If you got any old house door handles lying around with the bar that runs through joining the two handles i think that fits with an adjustable. Theres nothing wrong with lifting it out with oil though.

 

Secondly, have you been reading the haynes, I think your on about on the very old gearboxes if you take both drive shafts out a gear or something would drop out of place. I would safely bet you havnt got one of these gearboxes so go ahead and pull both driveshats out.

[gti-si 0]

Cheers Phil, well that just about takes care of that. I'll leave the oil in, its new anyway. Think i'll go and get the driveshafts out then! It's a BE3 box so if the later ones are alright, then I should be fine.

[GLPoomobile 958]

As above, no tool needed for your BE3 box

 

What are you thinking of in terms of brakes? IIRC (but you'll need to double check as my memory is a little hazy on the matter) I think I stuck 1.9 calipers on it already, so maybe just need some decent 1.9 disks to go with your new hubs and some decent pads. Maybe get a caliper refurb kit too and give them a going over. Actually, yeah, I'm sure I stuck 1.9 calipers on as I had them spare and the original 1.6 calipers were shot.

 

If you do get a full respray, are you going to forget about the side decals or get new ones printed up? Since you are missing one door decal anyway, getting a complete set printed up would be a lot easier as you could get a company to do something from scratch that more or less matches the current design, whereas matching the missing door decal would be more difficult (and why I never got around to it). Neither here nor there really, just thinking aloud, so to speak