309 Suspension On A 205

[Dave G 0]

i keep reading about the 309 suspension components being used on a 205

 

what benefit etc does it give and shold these parts be modified before use to make them fit or work better for tarmac use

[Sandy 191]

Front arms from the 309 widen the track usefully and induce a small amount of negative camber, which combine to improve front end bite and grip. The steering does become slightly less natural, but not unpleasantly so. The 309 front ARB is too thick and best avoided IMO.

 

Using the 309 rear beam over-stabilises the rear IMO, it's countered a bit by the thicker bars, but upgrading the rear bars on a 205 axle is a much better solution for overall handling balance (IMO).

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I take it by Tarmac use it's for a Rally car? if so I would go for adjustable bottom arm's as you get get both sides right as with most 205's very vary from side to side these day's. but the 309 Arm's will help if budget is a issue.

 

Agree with Sandy on this, the 205 beam is a much better bet with upgraded bars etc, I know allot of people disagree with this but 205's have won champinships using a 205 beam.

[McPikie 0]

So if you had 309 bottom arms and 1600 hubs, this would widen the track even more??

 

What kind of uprated bars do you guys suggest for a fast road, track car? Something to cock a leg in the air?

[Sandy 191]

For handling balance, 20mm with about 180-200lb/in fronts, but it's the ARB that will pick up the inside wheel, not necessarily ideal for progressive handling, but alot of people seem to like the feel of a thicker ARB.

[Anthony 1,003]

So if you had 309 bottom arms and 1600 hubs, this would widen the track even more??

Yes, but then you've a problem with driveshafts - the longer 309 driveshafts use the large 1.9 type spline fitting, and you risk the driveshaft CV's popping out and/or pulling away from the diff under full lock.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Unless you can find some of the old Group N front hub's which used the 1.6 offset but 1.9 bearing, but these are as rare as rocking horse p**

[Dave G 0]

so the bottom arms are best changed for some adjustable ones, is there a proven supplier for parts that seems to stand out for this sort of part.

 

and as long at the 205 rear beam isnt worn then stick with it?

Edited December 23, 2007 by Dave G

[Dave G 0]

And the standard hubs with fit striaght on, i take it i will need the drive shafts for the extra width

[richsmells 2]

309 gti hubs are identical to 205 1.9 gti hubs. Just the wishbones and driveshafts differ.

[Alastairh 47]

i take it i will need the drive shafts for the extra width

 

Yeah. Some people say you can get away with 205 lengths, but i don't agree. I've had them vibrate on me before on hard cornering, and at the end of the day, Peugeot wouldn't of designed them to be longer for no reason would they?

 

Al

[tom_m 0]

Some people say you can get away with 205 lengths, but i don't agree.

Al

 

me for one, i've run both my 205s on 309 wishbones with 205 shafts for years with no ill effect and will continue to do so

[t16ryan 1]

me for one, i've run both my 205s on 309 wishbones with 205 shafts for years with no ill effect and will continue to do so

 

I have also used 205 shafts with 309 arms and had no problems, even under heavy track use

[tom_m 0]

I have also used 205 shafts with 309 arms and had no problems, even under heavy track use

 

took mine to the ring and hammered it round carousel a few times, if anything were gonna break it would be there!

[Dave G 0]

sounds good.

 

Will be starting the car after christmas more intensivly and will start a work in progress thread for you all to give opinions on.

 

thanks for the pointers peoples

[VisaGTi16v 1]

Slight thread hijack but firstly I have spoken to a couple of 205 racers and they have run big power engines with 309 arms and shorter 1.6 shafts and have been ok but one said his do click around paddocks. I have moved to this setup on mine but think I will go back for the tight sprint courses unless.....

 

Presumably you can fit 1.6 calipers to 1.9 hubs as it works the other way round. What discs would I need though for the correct offset? I cannot use 1.9 calipers as the pads then fowl my 13" wheels plus I have good 1.6 calipers and expensive 1155's in them but would like 1.9 hubs so I run 309 shafts

 

Sandy: re: front arb's, whats your feeling on removing it? My limited knowledge suggests that when in a corner, the weight transfer and compression of the outside suspension means the arb is trying to lift up the inside one and so removing grip from it which surely is a bad thing?

 

cheers

[James_R 3]

does he run a plate diff?? mine 309 shafts sounds pretty special on tight lock in the paddock lol

 

the 309 beam option has always been the budget method of making the rear of the 205 more stable, but now bars have become far more available (205 parts jobs) means that a 309 beam isn't always the way to go. But it's worth saying putting GrpA mounts on are a good idea what ever the beam is.

 

James

Edited December 24, 2007 by James_R

[Alastairh 47]

took mine to the ring and hammered it round carousel a few times, if anything were gonna break it would be there!

 

I'll show you when EYX is back on the road at the end of the week. Easily noticeable on fly off round abouts, and can be heard on the lanes.

 

And deffinatly nothing else, because everything else is new, and its not the only 205 i've driven with 309 bones and 205 shafts that i've managed to make it do

 

Al

Edited December 24, 2007 by Alastairh

[VisaGTi16v 1]

Don't know James but he had a 220bhp S16 lump in it racing last year. I only did one sprint at Lydden with mine running 309 arms and 1.6 shafts/hubs and didnt hear any noises around the paddock or driving there. At tight sprint tracks like Debden I used to get them clicking with the normal length arms so they would almost certainly pop out with the 309 ones but I cannot go to 1.9 hubs due to small wheels, loads of good 13" tyres etc

[Sandy 191]

As long as the spring rates aren't too soft, traction is generally better without a front ARB. I never use one given the choice, my 309 has astonishing traction without one and sensible spring rates.

[jackherer 543]

I've got the front ARB disconnected at the moment to see if it was the cause of a knock and it may just be my imagination but it seems like the steering feel is a lot nicer particularly on slippery roads.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

cheers

[James_m 0]

does he run a plate diff?? mine 309 shafts sounds pretty special on tight lock in the paddock lol

 

the 309 beam option has always been the budget method of making the rear of the 205 more stable, but now bars have become far more available (205 parts jobs) means that a 309 beam isn't always the way to go. But it's worth saying putting GrpA mounts on are a good idea what ever the beam is.

 

James

Im guessing GrpA mounts make the rear more stable?

Are the O.E mounts not designed to induce geometry change under flex for some kind of benefit?

[James_R 3]

maybe when they left the factory some 20years ago, but rubber does get brittle, I've not tried replacing a beam with std new OE mounts. All I can say is that goign from a beam with old std mounts to grp A makes the tail much more stable and predicatble on track.

[Dave G 0]

who supplies the adjustable bottom arms