Driveshaft Lenghts - 205 309 And 405

[Powers 13]

I have checked my measurements and sorry the 306 is wider! This is due to the wider subframe pick up points and the wider original strut top location. I was just looking at the measurements of the individual parts and not the combined package!

 

James good luck with it all and please keep us updated. By the way have you turreted your rear suspension? Or is this against your class regulations?

Edited December 1, 2007 by Powers

[maxirallye 2]

James, I have taken a similar approach with my car, however have used eccentric top mounts backwards, ie to dial out excessive negative camber rather than create it.

 

The car is booked in with Sandy/Colin Satchell for the new year for plating over the top mounts and repositioning. ( I will be increasing track further than currently set).

 

I will post some pictures when complete.

 

Tony

[Sandy 191]

I was going to say, Colin's been producing a revised geometry, fully fabricated, wide track set up on 205s for sometime, with a great deal of success. Combined with the improved rear geometry and rear coilovers, it gives a level of feel, control and lateral grip that has astonished me and makes the 205 an entirely different chassis. It's not really something you can appreciate fully until you've tried it.

[JamesLumley 4]

Hi Sandy, did Colin's blue 205 have wider top mounts on the front? I remember it had rj wishbones but can't find my pics of the engine bay. The rear has always intreagued me with a coilover setup - is this really a better setup than uprated bars?

 

On a separate note, does anyone have any data on the specs/dimensions for the 306 maxi and 205 maxi - suspension wise? I can't find anything through google.

 

I'd also be interested to know where they source parts such as the hubs etc. I know it's all expensive stuff but no obvious stores - even searching through the google france doesn't seem to bring anything up. I can't believe they all manufacture their own kit, there must me someone who supplies it all.

 

James

[Sandy 191]

Colin relocates the top mounts laterally and longitudinally but uses different offset uprights, inner and outer pivots are moved too to get the roll centre location he wants. I can't talk specifics though, it's highly evolved set up, his intellectual property and hard earned!

 

Turrets/coilovers on the back have several advantages. 1:1 damper to wheel movement, upright dampers perform better (twin tube types), easily tuned spring rates, better droop control options, massively reduced arm flex/springing, reduced tube bearing wear. The main thing you notice is the improved wheel control form the improved damping, making the rear grip much more linear and predictable, still 100% 205, but less variable. The geometry changes he makes play a useful role too, but again I can't be specific.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

My Visa has just about 1:1 movement at the back, coil overs as standard, front is the same as a 205 though. Some good stuff in this thread

[JamesLumley 4]

Having decided to turret the back suspension, my 2008 blue book finally arrived in the post this morning.....not good news.

 

From 2009..."the suspension must retain the operating principle and utilise the mounting points as provided by the vehicle manufacturer" (p.308 reg 2009-268)

 

Guess that rules out the turreting then...looks like a maxi style beam is the only alternative.

[Powers 13]

Ah, spanner in the works then!

Does "utilise the mounting points as provided by the vehicle manufacturer", mean that you can't relocate the top mounts for increased track?

I will keep an eye out for one. New they are around £1800.

Edited December 4, 2007 by Powers

[VisaGTi16v 1]

You get a lot of mk1 escorts in sprints with 4 link rear ends etc which I believe are technically allowed however to fit them they have to modify the chassis up to the rear seat belt mounts which is not allowed. They have started to move then into the sports libre class in the West country but so far the SE ones have been ok, now if only they would move the 2.4 litre ones out of 2 litre class

[Mandic 0]

A bit of a hijack,

 

One for Hilgert I guess, which pug has longest and stongest driveshafts which fit to ML/ME box? 807, 605? And info about exact length would also be great

 

Thanks

 

Ziga

[Sandy 191]

Having decided to turret the back suspension, my 2008 blue book finally arrived in the post this morning.....not good news.

 

From 2009..."the suspension must retain the operating principle and utilise the mounting points as provided by the vehicle manufacturer" (p.308 reg 2009-268)

 

Guess that rules out the turreting then...looks like a maxi style beam is the only alternative.

It's my understanding, that if the car is log-booked before the new rules take effect, you'll be fine.

[JamesLumley 4]

The Escorts can turret their rear end as they were originally homologated with rear coilovers. No such luck with a 205. The blue book mentions the homologation allowances. I'm sure some of them will have gone too far though and might have to go back to std.

 

Sandy, rules seem fairly open to interpretation at the moment but it looks like if you have a log book before the start of 2009, you can continue to compete provided you comply with the new regs. There are some regs which are bypassed for these cars until 2012 but certain regs such as the suspension come into effect when the 09 rules come in.

 

The bottom line is everyine seems to understand them differently, I have asked the msa for clarification and as usual they have a huge backlog and therefore can't give a quick answer. It's a big risk to spend the time and money on doing it now only to get thrown out in a years time. Better to upgrade it in the future if the maxi setup doesn't produce the goods.

[welshpug 1,657]

what do the 205 Maxi/F2000 cars run up front? were these Homologated?

[Powers 13]

what do the 205 Maxi/F2000 cars run up front?

 

In what respect? Driveshafts?

[welshpug 1,657]

I was thinking of the front turrets, that's where the topic had wandered to! the rear is just wider isnt it?

 

 

and yeah what driveshafts do they use to cope with 300 odd brake?

[JamesLumley 4]

The 205 maxi is not an fia homologated car, they run under the french f2000 regs which allow the modification of various components. The derivative "205 maxi" is technically untrue as they are not a true maxi car - more of an evolution on the std 205 - just very highly modified! The 306 maxi on the other hand was a proper peugeot homologated project.

 

Some of the 205 maxis run turreted rears, others with a high spec ear beam. We think the red one which pics have been posted of before runs a full independant set of rear arms which is what I planned to do until the rules changed.

 

The front ends generally seem to be pretty much std at the top, they get the extra width from the hubs and bottom arms.

 

Driveshafts are custom jobbies, they look a lot thicker than std on the cars I have seen, they will also be much longer than a std shaft.

[ifcho 0]

I'd also be interested to know where they source parts such as the hubs etc. I know it's all expensive stuff but no obvious stores - even searching through the google france doesn't seem to bring anything up. I can't believe they all manufacture their own kit, there must me someone who supplies it all.

 

James

 

KRS Competition are making parts for F2000 cars AFAIK - http://pagesperso-orange.fr/krs-competition/trian205.htm

[welshpug 1,657]

that's the site

[Powers 13]

Just dont bother looking at the prices!

[welshpug 1,657]

I couldn't find them

[Craigb 2]

306 and 405 shafts are the same length

 

Do you know if the cv joints and the shaft dia's are the same as 205 ones ?

[snillet 1]

Has anyone confirmed the drivshaft lenghts mentioned in the beginning of this thread ?

 

Mainly i´m interrested in the difference between 309GTI and 405 driveshafts lenghtwise, need to know that to calculate my new front "support frame"

[snillet 1]

Might be worth looking at citroen bx shafts?

 

This seems like a good idea, as far as i´ve been able to find out the BX shafts are 630mm and 870mm, meaning they´re exactly 20mm longer then 309 shafts.

 

The long 405 shaft is 30mm longer, might not cause any problems... but it might also DO cause problems, i don´t know but the BX shafts seems like a better options since they´re equally longer at both sides.

 

I´ll look into that at least

[JamesLumley 4]

I've just bought a set of 405 shafts to try out for length so I will confirm dimensions when they arrive

[jonand 0]

Hi James

 

Did you ever get the definitive lengths of all available shafts - that info is most useful.

 

Regards

Jon