I'd Like To Build A Complete Oe Engine Management Loom

[Ryan 99]

No way do you need £300 crimping tools. http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-...oninscrimps.php - avoid item D1 (those type of tools are a pain at best) but even the MP71 is good enough to make a loom with.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Ryan

[welshpug 1,657]

that terminal tool kit is exactly the one a work mate has, I didn't know the price but seeing the quality its worth the £60.

 

a £25 laser ratchet crimper is more than able to replicate factory crimps (which is very similar to PR4 on the VWP Page linked to by Ryan)

 

Top link doesn't work. Is there anything specific about the tool or is simply a much better quality version of a more general non insulated terminal ratchet crimping tool? As I said, I've not seen the plug so don;t know what the terminals look like, hence the question.

 

that I'd be interested to see, I cant figure out how a £25 ratchet crimper could be bettered! especially be tenfold

Edited November 28, 2007 by welshpug

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The Crimp tool's I have are well over £300.00 each but having been in that industry from MOD (Warships/Sub's) to Special one off's you really do need them to do a quality job, they should also be calibrated often as they where out and you can end up having the wires pull out of the crimp's.

 

But for home DIY it's worth checking each crimp by giving it a quick hard pull to make sure the wires been crimped OK, For a car loom it's just as easy to follow the std route, You could goto fully waterproof connection's and heatshink (which makes the loom hard to bend) but for a road car a bit over the top.

 

It always makes me laugh when you see people using Yellow crimps on 1mm wire, But few people know or I doubt listed on the packing that the different colours suit different wire sizes.

[welshpug 1,657]

I bought terminal pin removal kit today MAC tools have them on a Promotion this month and they're down to £19.99 from £25, they are also identical to the set snap-on sell for £50 plus vat, and franklin sell for £30, so they were cheaper anyway!

[GLPoomobile 958]

Linky please:)

 

Chrimbo pressie a go go!

[welshpug 1,657]

I believe the only way to get MAC tools is off the vans like snap-on as I've never seen them anywhere else.

 

kit looks exactly like this but a tenner cheaper;

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/T531100-12-Pc-Automo...1QQcmdZViewItem

[GLPoomobile 958]

Well you could have picked me up a set while you were at it! LOL

 

Bloody comin on here here with yer "I got a bargain, ner ner ner ner nah nah" attitude! Git!

 

[welshpug 1,657]

mr GLPoomobile drop me £20 plus some stamp money and I'll grab some next Monday for you

[GLPoomobile 958]

mr GLPoomobile drop me £20 plus some stamp money and I'll grab some next Monday for you

 

Get in you dancer! You sir, are a scholar among men

 

PM on it's way (the message type, not Gordon c*nting Brown)

Edited December 4, 2007 by GLPoomobile

[pugrallye 0]

Just to add to an already fact filled thread, you cannot help but improve your wiring situation by reproducing an original one, (god i remember the majority of looms pulled out a 205 were half cooked). Terminal tools esp. the the ones you need are cheaply purchased, although I personally would avoid the likes of laser etc. (never been a big fan of mac tools etc for items like this but its horses for courses) as they tend to be slightly the wrong size tool for the tabs and can if frustrated and heavy handed make a right old mess of the multiplug if your planning on reusing it. Peugeot will have listed a precise tool for the job, which although they wont enjoy selling to you, they have no choice (partially down to no mark up on the part), from my point of view, buying a 'universal' kit is false economy (yes i do own one though) and I am reterminalising pretty much every car at some point, so the factory tools are a far more economical and faster way of doing things.... Good luck with your loom, time and patience and you will have it cracked in no time... oh use heat shrunk crimps whereever factory loom is crimped, not gay old b&q things

Edited December 4, 2007 by pugrallye

[welshpug 1,657]

another thing I found today in the office was a Durite catalogue for a supplier that we use for electrical truck and trailer parts, they list Superseal and Junior timer connectors

 

junior timer connectors are only shown in black though so they may not be of any use (the colour denotes the position of the cutout) I think an email to VWP for a cataloque is due.

[welshpug 1,657]

you do need the pin removal tool if you're going right to the ECU

 

anyone know off hand how much junior power timer connectors are from VWP? Durite suggested list price is £1.50 +vat complete (i.e with terminals and seal)

[GLPoomobile 958]

I have the terminal removal tools (thanks Welshpug) and an old loom (thanks Rob Thompson).

 

I can't work out how to get in to the ECU plug and don't want to break it. I've pulled back the rubber cover at the end of the plug where the wires enter, then there is a small plastic tab held in by two small screws that I've removed. There is also a single screw at the other end of the plug that seems to have no purpose.

 

So how do I get 'inside' the big plug?

[welshpug 1,657]

its that single screw you need to remove, I have some pics somewhere

[welshpug 1,657]

hope these pics help Steve.

 

 

remove both clamping screws, then the single screw at the other end.

carefully pull the seal out of the plug, then you should be able to ease the plug out at the angle as shown.

 

If you want to pull the terminals out of the plug you need to extract the inserts each side of the terminal holder, I haven't a photo of this though. If I remember I'll take one tomorrow.

 

the pic below shows the ZX 16v plug next to the GTi6 plug, most of the pinouts differ, but its the same plug.

 

[GLPoomobile 958]

Cybernck has very kindly moved this topic out of the archive so I could update it I thought it would be a good idea to get this updated since I've made a bit of progress with my own knowledge in the process, and since I may well finally get around to making a loom very soon (so much for the winter project, hey! ).

 

My other topic about replacing plugs and terminals may make some for some handy reading on the side for anyone else who is still on a learning curve like I was:

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...20&start=20

 

So just a quick summary of some things I've found since starting this topic many, many months ago:

 

1 - You can use Junior Power Timer plugs on the sensors, injectors, AFM, ignition amp etc, and they all fit fine with no need to trim off any lugs.

2 - In releasing all the terminals from the plugs in the loom, I have only needed to use the one same tool from my terminal extraction set. It is the thinnest, narrowest one in the set. I suspect therefore, that you could actually do all of this with something similar like a paper clip, safety pin, or jewellers screwdriver. Save spending at least £20 on a whole set of tolls you may never use.

3 - The above also applies to the ECU terminals, no need for any expensive, specialist tools.

4 - The terminals for the ECU are the same as used in Junior Timer housings, and you can therefore buy them from VWP for 24p each or £1.80 for 10. The part number is 5962.

5 - The part numbers for the other terminals and connectors on the loom are listed in Servicebox under Nuts and Bolts, and then Connectique Standard at the next menu. You should only need to replace the terminals since there is no reason why the housings should be damaged. I need to find out from Pug next week if these parts are actually available to buy, what the minimum quantity will be, and therefore how much they are going to rape me.

 

Part numbers for terminals:

 

For the relay sockets - 6542 32 for wires 1mm square, 6542 30 for wires 5mm square

For the brown ignition coil connector - 6542 22 for wires 0.6mm sq, 6542 19 for wires 1mm sq, 6542 20 for wires 3mm sq (these are female terminals)

For the brown multiplugs under the dash (male terminals) - 6542 59 for wires 1mm sq, 6542 V5 for wires 2mm sq

[steve@cornwall 100]

Good on you for this, Steve. Just as a suggestion, why not make more than one? Doing 2 or 3 together wouldn't take much longer and you should recoup a lot of your costs, or make a healthy profit - a brand new custom made 205 Mi loom should be very popular!

[GLPoomobile 958]

Well I do have a spare loom that was donated to me last year when I started this topic, so if all goes well, I may rebuild that one too and sell it on. But you have to bare in mind that to build one from scratch would need all the plugs which won't be cheap (dread to think what Pug would charge for the ECU plug! I checked Servicebox earlier and they want over £18 for a 2 pin JPT plug! ).

 

I'll do a full costing on this when I'm finished, but I still reckon you could do this for circa £50 depending on how much you want to replace. So the bare minimum would be to only replace the wires and terminals, and re-use all plugs and cable protection, and you don't even need to replace all the wiring as some will be fine (for example I'm going to leave the CAS well alone as the wiring is shielded and looks in good nick). Mine will end up costing over £50 as I'm using JPT housings and new cable protecting, plus the extra little things like heat shrink, self amalgamating tape, heat shrink insulated spades and so on.

 

Also, if any Mi wiring loom experts are reading this, I'd be quite interested to know what the unused wires in the loom were originally for:

 

1 - A yellow wire coming from pin 17 on the ECU. On both my looms it runs half the length of the loom and has nothing on the end. No connector, no protection, just a bare end. What's it for?

2 - A 2 pin sensor plug near the 2 relays, has a blue and yellow wire. Some sort of diagnostic connection?

3 - A few other spade connectors taped in to the loom not being used. I remember one is quite near the ECU end.

[Ethos 0]

I have two spare whires near my ecu on the mi16, I believe one is an earth and the other is for "injection coding system". Afaik they are both not needed

Edited July 6, 2008 by Ethos

[kyepan 291]

1 - A yellow wire coming from pin 17 on the ECU. On both my looms it runs half the length of the loom and has nothing on the end. No connector, no protection, just a bare end. What's it for?

 

 

accoring to caps it's the diagnositics socket, have a look on the caps sticky in engine management to get it.

[GLPoomobile 958]

accoring to caps it's the diagnositics socket, have a look on the caps sticky in engine management to get it.

 

Yes, I stupidly asked that question before checking the obvious Was looking through CAPS last night after I was on here, and as you say, pins 4, 12 and 17 are for diagnostics. 2 go to the 2 pin Junior Timer connector usually found near the relays and the other is a single female spade. And as Ethos says, the other spade is an earth, which is connected to the other earth wires half way along the loom.

 

I've spent the last couple of evenings just trying to untangle my bodged loom! It's difficult enough since some of the wires run between plugs so you can't easily separate it out in to sub looms, but it was made harder since the person who did this has just twisted everything up and wires are the wrong length etc. So I've had to meticulously go through it, taking terminals out of their connectors as I go, unwinding the wire and then putting them back in their housing. All just so I can get some structure to it and lay it on the floor easily.

 

The next step is I'll be out in the car this afternoon taking measurements so I can work out my wire lengths. Then put it all on paper and come up with a schematic.

 

The general plan is to route the loom from the bulkhead grommet along the bulkhead towards the passenger side. It'll then split taking the relays up to the top corner near the coolant expansion tank (I'm thinking of mounting a sealed 4 relay housing up there which will hold the injection relay, fuel pump relay and the existing relay that is up there {headlight relay?}). I'll also be moving the ignition amp from it's current location by the fuel filter, to the passenger side behind the battery where the coil is currently sitting (will now be using the proper inlet mounted coil), so the loom will split off to that as well. The loom will run over the gearbox area splitting off to earth, CAS, CTS, and reverse switch. It'll then run on to take in the shunt box, AFM and coil. Then along to the ICV and injectors. I've already made sub looms for the sensors and starter solenoid, so I'll keep them. That's the rough plan but it'll obviously need to be fined tuned once I lay it in the bay.

 

Providing I can get the terminals from PUg for the brown multiplugs, I'll start ordering the rest of what I need next week and try and get this done within a couple of weeks.

Edited July 6, 2008 by GLPoomobile

[Ryan 99]

I have two spare whires near my ecu on the mi16, I believe one is an earth and the other is for "injection coding system". Afaik they are both not needed

 

You can put a resistor between these two spade terminals and supposedly the ECU will alter the timing for different octane fuels. My loom came with one fitted, but all the info I can find online is for Vauxhalls (which used the same 4.1 ECU). The resistor fitted to mine appears to be for 97RON, the same setting as you get with none fitted. I keep meaning to play about with it, but I don't know if the Mi16 ECU even has the feature enabled.

[Grim.Badger 15]

For the relay sockets - 6542 32 for wires 1mm square, 6542 30 for wires 5mm square

For the brown ignition coil connector - 6542 22 for wires 0.6mm sq, 6542 19 for wires 1mm sq, 6542 20 for wires 3mm sq (these are female terminals)

For the brown multiplugs under the dash (male terminals) - 6542 59 for wires 1mm sq, 6542 V5 for wires 2mm sq

 

I have ordered 10 of the 6542 V5 connectors, they go onto back order from France or wherever the central warehouse is. I picked them up a couple of days ago and they are the final part to my new sensor loom that I built. They cost £1 each (+VAT) ; I ordered them from Citroen who would get as many as I wanted but they come in bags of 5 so some dealers may not be as happy to split the packs.

 

Bear in mind that the wires to the tachometer and coil take a different thinner connector as they share a connection in the brown multiplug.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Grim Badger - shocking price eh, for a silly little bit of metal! You should only need about 3 or 4 of those though, since the other wires are 1mm squared I believe, so you'd use 6542 59 for those, and they are 36p each before VAT.

 

I haven't ordered mine yet as I just don't get time during the week. Too busy at work.

 

One thing that is really bugging me though, is the plug that goes in to the shunt box. Firstly, I have tried and tried and just can't work out how to release the terminal on it, so I'm going to have to either keep that run of cable, or if needs be cut the cable further down and join in a new section. I also cannot find that particular plug and it's associated terminal on Servicebox anywhere. They show hundreds of different plugs and terminals but not that one, which is strange as you have one for the engine loom going in to the shunt box, one for the headlight loom (I think) and one for the radiator fan loom (again, I think).

[welshpug 1,657]

Took a few pictures earlier.

 

Plug with female spade connectors inside.........................................Lift up clip on either side.............................................top view with clip open.

 

 

inside view.......................................................................a little wiggle and pull

 

 

 

Brown multiplug type with male spades inside.

 

 

Prise clip open with small screwdriver.....................................................top view with clip open...............................................................front view

 

 

 

Didnt have one of the above with wires still in it but those come out quite easily.

Edited July 13, 2008 by welshpug