[engine_work] 306 Project

[sonofsam 5]

Well done Rob ! good show.

[Sloppy 0]

nice job chief, really would like to see this when you have it fully up and running.

[Rob Turbo 3]

Got all the plumbing done, got the front panel back on, started filling it up with water and it's taking ages! I got about 8 pints of water in (using a 4 pint milk carton to get water to the car!) and it keeps filling the tank then slowly draining it, to help things along I fired it up, which emptied the tank fairly quickly, so I turned it off, added more water then tried again, it's too dark to carry on so I'll leave filling it up for tomorrow!

 

While I had it running it wouldn't tick over itself, I had to keep my foot slightly on the accelerator, but then if I blipped the throttle the revs would stay up and it was ticking over at 3k (not for long! I turned it off sharpish!) Could this be because I have no lambda sensor yet? Any other suggestions as to why it would be doing this?

 

Everything else is plugged in, the ICV is plumbed in the correct way around, there's no pipes left off on anything!

[sonofsam 5]

Got all the plumbing done, got the front panel back on, started filling it up with water and it's taking ages! I got about 8 pints of water in (using a 4 pint milk carton to get water to the car!) and it keeps filling the tank then slowly draining it, to help things along I fired it up, which emptied the tank fairly quickly, so I turned it off, added more water then tried again, it's too dark to carry on so I'll leave filling it up for tomorrow!

 

While I had it running it wouldn't tick over itself, I had to keep my foot slightly on the accelerator, but then if I blipped the throttle the revs would stay up and it was ticking over at 3k (not for long! I turned it off sharpish!) Could this be because I have no lambda sensor yet? Any other suggestions as to why it would be doing this?

 

Everything else is plugged in, the ICV is plumbed in the correct way around, there's no pipes left off on anything!

 

 

I had to run the engine up on mine too, to get it fully filled and bled.

 

Are you using an S16 ECU also?!

[carbers205 1]

Wow, thats come together quick Rob!

When you blip the throttle do the revs ever come down again?

Its just I sometimes find if the cambelt has any slack in the wrong places it holds its revs longer than it should.

 

Andy

[Rob Turbo 3]

I'm using the turbo ecu on the modified s16 loom, the only modifications I've done are lengthening the wires on the TPS and intake temp sensor and changing the coil multi plug to a plug for the coil pack, I've checked the loom to make sure everything is connected that should be and it's all ok (except for the lambda sensor as I said above), I'm not sure if the mp3.2 works the same way as the management on a vauxhall calibra 16v, but when I got the calibra it wouldn't warm up, I got a new thermostat and it would heat up fine but as soon as it heated it would splutter and fart on, turned out to be the lambda sensor had had it but it only caused problems when the engine started to warm up because the lambda sensor is ignored by the ecu until a certain temp is reached in the engine, now with there being not much coolant in it wouldn't take long at all for the engine to warm up so it would try to read the lambda sensor alomst straight away wouldnt it?

 

Alternatively it could be the s16 throttle body I have on, I have a standard turbo one untouched that I could fit tomorrow to see if it helps.

 

When I blip the throttle the revs do drop a bit then stick, for example if I'm holding it at 1k then blip the throttle to say 3k the revs will drop back down to 2k and stay there until I blip the throttle again then they will ho higher and stick but will never go lower, it's also a bit spluttery, the timing belt is new and I know that there's no slack in it anywhere and it's deffinitely timed up correctly, but thanks for the pointer.

 

I'll also check the fuel pressure come to think of it! I've never looked at the pressure gauge with the engine running and don't know what presure it was set at when I got it!

 

Thanks for your replies, I WILL have it running properly before I go back to work!!

 

Thanks,

Rob

[sonofsam 5]

From memory mine idled ok with no exhaust and no lambda sensor fitted.

[Rob Turbo 3]

From memory mine idled ok with no exhaust and no lambda sensor fitted.

 

Come to think of it my 205 turbo did as well

 

I'm gonna have to try the standard throttle body on tomorrow, I have a feeling that's where the problem's coming from! I told myself I was going to leave it standard until it was running properly as well, shame I never listen to myself!!

[welshpug 1,657]

sounds like a TPS issue them, I'd try the turbo Throttle body.

[Rob Turbo 3]

You know, I think I know what it is now, when I modified the s16 throttle body to fit the turbo I had both bodies in front of me, as I was removing bits from them I was just putting them to one side, when it came to putting them back together I just grabbed the nearest bit that would go where I wanted it. On the turbo body the top of the throttle plate tips forward as you rev it but on the s16 the top tips back as you rev it, but both TPS's look exactly the same, but it would seem that they work in opposite directions, and it looks like I've put the wrong TPS on, so when the throttle is closed the ECU thinks I've got my foot planted!

 

Would anyone happen to have a turbo TPS kicking about that they could get the part number off so I can check it with the one on my desk (that I think should be on the throttle body )

 

Thanks welshpug, you may have just hit the nail on the head!!

[Rob Turbo 3]

I had a tinker with the fuel pressure because it was too high, it was set at just below 3 bar with the vacuum pipe connected I took it down to 2.5 bar (autodata suggests 2.3-2.7 bar) but the highest it would go without the vacuum pipe is just below 3 bar, which is less than standard, but I think that's because the engine used to have a single injector so the pump only needed to produce 1.1 bar, so I'll be running it at it's limit by trying for 3+

 

I've done a bit of research and found that the ph1 306's had a fuel pump and seperate level sensor, then from ph2 they had a fuel pump that had the level sensor built in, so I need to find a ph1 306 fuel pump from a car with a 2.0 engine, so xsi or s16 basically!

 

Or, looking at the pumps it seems possible to remove the actual pump from the housing and fit it into another housing, so I might be able to get any pump and put it in the housing I already have. If this is possible, I have a 205 1.6 gti petrol tank with the pump still in and I took the fuel pump out of the XM that I destroyed to turbo my 205, so I might be able to remove one of them from the housing and use that.

 

Other than that, I changed the throttle body back to the standard one and I don't think it made a difference, I did that before altering the pressure which seemed to help things so I might be able to put the other one back on, I'll get it running properly first before I go doing any more tinkering!

 

The car is back together now, just need to build the exhaust or possibly fit an s16 exhaust as a temp fix, but with a bit of luck I'll have the 2.5" one built tomorrow, and I need to finish the air filter piping, at the minute I can't shut the bonet with the filter on because I just chucked something together to fire it up!

[Sloppy 0]

if the manifold leaks then the can tick over spaz, mine was ticking over at 3k (mi16) as there was a hose missing from the inlet manifold not sure how the setup is on the turbo engine though??

[Rob Turbo 3]

I don't think I've missed any pipes off the inlet manifold, I'll check it out tomorrow, I want an exhaust on before I fire it up again though, I'm sure the neighbours are getting sick of the noise! Providing the weather isn't too wet I should be able to build the exhaust tomorrow, I went to machine mart today (vat free day) and got some more argon and a new regulator because we butchered the old regulator for the pipe connection to put on the regulator for the big co2 bottle! I'm just sick of rolling around in puddles!!

 

I'll get the fuel pump out tomorrow and get a photo so you can see if any of yours look like they might fit!

[max0 5]

now the rob, i've not been on the forum for ages but looks like you've been busy

[jimbean 0]

HELLO THERE ROB...

 

GOOD TO SEE THAT MOTOR UP AND RUNNING

 

WAS AT MAXO`S TODAY HE TOLD ME OF YOUR POST

 

YOUR IDLE PROBLEM MAY BE IDLE CONTROL VALVE FAULT... IT SHOULD HAVE A 3 PIN GREY CONECTOR ON IT 1 PIPE SHOULD BE BEHIND THE BUTTERFLY ONE IN FRONT

 

I HAD A SIMILAR PROB ON ONE I DID RECENTLY

[Rippthrough 98]

I think Rich over on the gti6 forum had a phase 1 pump for sale a while back?

[Rob Turbo 3]

Thanks for that, I've got an idle control valve on but it's one thats been sitting around the shed for years and I can't remember if I'd ever seen it working! I'll see if I can get hold of another one to try if the problem is still there now it's topped up with coolant, has a standard throttle body on and has the right fuel pressure!

 

I've been sorting the exhaust today, I've got it all welded up to just under the rear beam with a gap at the front for a cat, I'll finish it off tomorrow if it's not raining! I also need some stainless steel rod to make the hangers out of, I've got a bit that I might manage to make 2 hangers out of, I'll have to wait and see how I get on.

 

I went to halfords to get some exhaust clamps but got the wrong bloody ones! I just saw 2.5" and got 3, turns out there's 2 different size 2.5" clamps, 63mm for regular 2.5" pipe and 65mm for 2.5" pipe that's been expanded, which is what I needed! Nevermind! I might be able to modify these to fit, if not I'll have to wait until somewhere is open to get some more!

[Rippthrough 98]

I went to halfords to get some exhaust clamps but got the wrong bloody ones! I just saw 2.5" and got 3, turns out there's 2 different size 2.5" clamps, 63mm for regular 2.5" pipe and 65mm for 2.5" pipe that's been expanded, which is what I needed! Nevermind! I might be able to modify these to fit, if not I'll have to wait until somewhere is open to get some more!

 

I'm guessing your using a couple of slip joints then!

 

Sometimes you can get away with it by squeezing the fold on the clamp at the nut end to give you another mm or 2.

[Rob Turbo 3]

I've got 3 slip joints, 2 near the front where the cat will go and one at the back for the back box to slip into, Ill have a go at modifying one tomorrow to see if I can get it on.

[Rippthrough 98]

Hoy, jim, update that avatar, you're out of date

[jimbean 0]

Hoy, jim, update that avatar, you're out of date

 

maybe... but as i have not been on here for quite a while i will forgive myself

[Rob Turbo 3]

Oh, Jim, the 2.0 turbo you had in your 306, with the 4 bar pressure regulator, I take it that will have raised the fuel pressure at idle as well? Did that cause any problems?

 

I'm using an FSE "power boost valve" (I only get it because it's adjustable, had the adaptor and was dirt cheap!), would it be a good idea to set the pressure at 3 bar with the vac pipe disconected or should I be setting it higher or lower? I'll be getting it RR'd at some point but would like to know I'm not doing any damage until then. I do have an air/fuel ratio meter but it's not wideband so probably not much use, that and I haven't fitted a lambda sensor in the downpipe for it, just the sensor for the ecu, which I think is a different type (the one fitted is 4 wire, the one for the gauge is only 3 wire)

[jimbean 0]

Oh, Jim, the 2.0 turbo you had in your 306, with the 4 bar pressure regulator, I take it that will have raised the fuel pressure at idle as well? Did that cause any problems?

 

I'm using an FSE "power boost valve" (I only get it because it's adjustable, had the adaptor and was dirt cheap!), would it be a good idea to set the pressure at 3 bar with the vac pipe disconected or should I be setting it higher or lower? I'll be getting it RR'd at some point but would like to know I'm not doing any damage until then. I do have an air/fuel ratio meter but it's not wideband so probably not much use, that and I haven't fitted a lambda sensor in the downpipe for it, just the sensor for the ecu, which I think is a different type (the one fitted is 4 wire, the one for the gauge is only 3 wire)

 

hello again

 

the only prob i have experienced is it`s sometimes slow to start when hot

 

will the fse run ok with boost pressure.. rather than vac in a normally assperated motor

 

if you set your fse at 3 bar it may raise slightly but it will be still running the same pressure as the standard reg

 

thats why i got a 4 bar...

 

but you will need a stronger fuel pump ie golf gti or a escort xr3i that use a mechanicle fuel inj and will have a good strong inline pump use your pump to feed the new 1

 

my first engine was running big boost but 3 bar fuel reg and was a lot les potant than this 1 running .7 or .8 bar and the big reg

 

to run more boost you need more fuel to compensate the extra air in the combustion chamber

you will need 3.5 to 4 bar to get the extra power without mapping

 

 

 

your af meter will tell you if your oxy sensor is rich but it will be if you have upper the pressure

[Rob Turbo 3]

From what I've read the fse will handle boost ok, but I will need a new pump anyway, the spi pump that's in is only made to pump out 1.1 bar so I'll be pushing it to it's limits already by running it at 3 bar! I've got a pump from the xm that I got the engine out of for my 205 turbo, I took it apart today and I'm going to see if I can fit it in the 306 housing tomorrow, if not I'm going to have to get another pump for the tank, then possibly another external pump.

 

What setup were you running on your 306 and where do you fit the 2nd pump (and how do you wire it in?)

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

good work rob! if you need a inline fuel pump, 405 2.0 mi16's use them. there about 25 quid from a factors iirc.

 

 

more photos please!

 

mike