[engine_work] 306 Project

[Rob Turbo 3]

I'll phone them on monday to see if they will, unless I get one sorted before then.

 

I went to AAS today to get some bends but they told me 3" will be too big, it won't gain any power and it will loose torque, he suggested 2.5" and quoted me around £250 for all the bends, some pipe and a back box and said he would knock the cost of the 3" pipe off if I want to take it back (I bought it from them ages ago, they never mentioned it being too big then!!). If I'm going for 2.5" pipe I won't need the back box off them, I'll be able to buy a universal one (about £40 from my local motor factors as opposed to the £100 that AAS quoted me, I'm sure they do a good job but I'm on a tight budget!!), also, they quoted me about £30 each for 180 degree bends for me to cut down to whatever angle I need, it will be a lot cheaper to do it that way but more work for me!

 

I'll be going back next saturday to get it done, whatever it is that I'm getting done! He said to have a think about it, have a look under the car to see how tight things are etc. They have the measurements for a 306 already so I don't need to measure them myself! They also said that they will build the exhaust for me and fit it, that way it will be a perfect fit, for a meer £400! I must admit, their work is spot on, but as I said, I'm on a tight budget!

[Rob Turbo 3]

@sonofsam:

 

Did all of your bits of exhaust slot together or was some of it just butted up against eachother then welded? (been looking through your project gallery!)

 

Them pipe expanders don't work with stainless because it's too hard apparently, at least that's what the ebay seller told me, I'm sure that heat would help but I've decided to just butt the pipe together and weld it rather than slot it together and weld it! I've been back to my local motor factors and seen them about a back box and they said their stainless back boxes have a 2.25" inlet but they are going to phone their supplier to see if they can get other sizes, but I've been thinking, 2.5" pipe is 2.5" outside diameter correct? and I think that the boxes they sell at my local motor factors are 2.25" inside diameter, so they should more or less slot straight together correct?

[sonofsam 5]

Hi Rob,

 

Would probably be OK for mild steel I guess as that is much more maluable! My downpipe is completely butt welded , however the long straight section it joins to has the swage at that end, so the end of my downpipe slots into that and is clamped. I desinged it this way so I could make a cheeky side exit later on down the line with ease of fitment.

From the long section back it is all butt welded with my mates MIG, the downpipe I got a pro. to TIG, except for the XU cast flange

wich we MIG'd , wich broke last weekend as it's quite hard to get penetration welding stainless to cast, luckily our new welder at

work did a better job this time, so I would reccomend a pro for that part, as I wouldnt want it to happen to you 12months down the line!

The rest of the system is sweet though and passed two MOT,s

 

I picked up my backbox off ebay for some ridiculousy low sum, and with the jetex parts and some non jetex bends plus a bit of welding

came well in under £80 to build the complete system.

 

2.5" pipe is 2.5" outside diameter correct? and I think that the boxes they sell at my local motor factors are 2.25" inside diameter, so they should more or less slot straight together correct?

 

That would be nice wouldnt it!. Yes it's usually done on O.D. so depending on the wall thickness of the backbox entry I guess,

if not you could always lop it off and butt weld back up against the backbox with the 2.5" pipe and weld a skid plate on for extra strength.

 

Sam.

[Rob Turbo 3]

Well I got the back box today, with it's whopping 4.5" tip!

 

 

 

 

Now isn't that a beaut

 

I'm still not sure what to do for a tip, I'm thinking just use a bit of the 2.5" pipe coming out the back, either that or buy a 2.5" or 3" tip and weld that on instead.

 

I just realised on my way home from work that I should have bought some oil seals for the diff, I think I'm gonna have to try to get back to the motorfactors on my lunch break tomorrow to get some ordered, if they can't get them before xmas I'll try putting the shafts in the box and chucking some oil in to see if it just pours back out, if it does then the turbo will be back on hold until the new year

 

So is the rest of your exhaust holding up ok just being butt welded? I was originaly going to have all the ends swaged so I could slip it together then weld it, but if I just get 180 degree bends and cut them to the angle I need I won't be able to do that without a few journeys back and forth to newcastle, which is well out of the question!!

[Rob Turbo 3]

Got the rest of the bits today - clutch cable, gearbox oil and seals so should have no problems now!!

 

Had my last full day at work for 2 weeks today, I'm back tomorrow at 8:30, an hour later than usual, for a couple hours clean up of the factory, then off home to get changed for the meal at 1:00! I'm planning on only having a couple of pints while I'm there (I'm not driving BTW!) then coming back and starting the conversion, I'll probably just get the car in the field where I'm doing it and get the tent up, possibly start stripping it, then back in the house for a couple of bottles of stella!

[Rob Turbo 3]

Well things didn't exactly go to plan!

 

After the works do on friday I got the car into the field where I'll be working but it was far too cold to put the tent up so I just drained the coolant then left it for the day!

 

Yesterday I went to AAS to get my exhaust bits then got back and got the tent up and the car in, it's a bit on the small side but it'll do, I've just undone the zip on the back and pushed the car through a bit so I can move around the front of the car. My brother was up from london so I didn't get anything else done!

 

 

Then today I started pulling the car to bits, so far the I've got everything off that needs to come off to get the engine out, I took a couple of photos while I was doing it but it was dark by the time I'd finished for the day so couldn't take any more photos! I didn't get as much done as I'd hoped because I had to take my younger brother (who was supposed to be giving me a hand!!) to his girlfriends, then take my older brother to the train station!

 

 

 

 

I'll get a couple more photos of how it is now in the morning then try to remember to take some as I'm going!

 

It's not as cold in the tent as I tought it would be, a bit drafty around the bottom but not too bad, and there's plenty space to move around except at the front where it's a bit tight but not really a problem, and the door is easily big enough to get the engine hoist through!

 

More to come soon!!

[James_m 0]

Majorly O/T! Rob, after reading your posts on here for ages it has only just occured to me that your avater is not a amusing slightly smily face but an 8v cylinder head!

Think im going mad

Good luck with the project and respect for working in this cold weather. I would'nt!

[tom_m 0]

after reading your posts on here for ages it has only just occured to me that your avater is not a amusing slightly smily face but an 8v cylinder head!

Think im going mad

 

no you're not, it took me AGES to work that one out too! think it would make a good t-shirt. those in the know would know and everyone else would think its was a smiley face... everyone's a winner!

[Rob Turbo 3]

And now for some bad news, the wind got up and its pulled the tent apart, I had it tied down to some curb stones and big lumps of wood, the tent has torn all along one side then snapped the string I tied it down with, the other side dragged the lump of wood over the car (the wood was about 12' long, 6" deep and 10" wide, not light at all!), scraping the paint on the drivers side rear door and quarter panel one of the poles has put a couple of nice gouges in the bonet and something has hit the front of the bonet and most of the tent poles are bent.

 

Most of the car parts were in the tent as well so me and my younger brother have just been down and thrown everything in the shed, I'm very surprised my windscreen is in one piece because I left the bonet propped up with a bit of wood, when I went down the bonet was shut! There's no bonet catch now that I've taken the front panel off so I've tied it down.

 

I'm gutted, looks like I'll be without a car for a while now that I've got nowhere to work, I can't just put the 1.4 back together now either because the bottom rad pipe clips snapped when I tried to un-clip it and while I was taking bits off I found the passenger side cv boot is split and the joint has quite a bit of play, I noticed something odd the last few weeks but thought it couldn't be that shaft because it was new only a couple of months ago!

 

Sick, sick, sick!!! Time for beer me thinks

[M@tt 77]

ah mate thats gutting news

[Rob Turbo 3]

Been back down today and I think I can patch it back together!

 

I've straightened most of the poles, a couple I haven't straightened because it's starting to squash the pole so I'll see how well it fits together anyway, the rip along the side is where 2 bits of material are stitched together, I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that but I'll think of something!!

 

I'm off to B&Q later to get some rope to throw over the top of it and tie down, I'll be able to tie that to the fence posts on one side and I'll see what I can find for the other side! I'm also going to tie the bottom of the zips together so they can't open in the wind which is what seems to have happened last night, I'm not sure though, the zips might have opened after it had been blown all over!!

 

As for the damage to the car, the scratches on the bonet are fairly deep, but the bonet wasn't exactly mint before, it had a couple of tiny dings and underneath had some rust around the catch. The scratches on the rear door and quarter panel look like they will polish out so not all bad!

[Rob Turbo 3]

I got a bit more done today, this is how it was when I left it last night

 

 

Then today I removed the engine

 

 

 

 

I also removed the subframe and the front exhaust pipe then got the angle grinder out and chopped a lump out of the bulkhead to clear the turbo but didn't get any photos (as usual! I'll get some tomorrow), I'm not sure if I've cut enough out of the bulkhead but I'll be doing all the trial fitting tomorrow. to check for turbo clearence and radiator/intercooler clearence. After the trial fitting I'll be taking the welder down to weld the bulkhead, lower engine mount and possibly some welding on the front if I need to modify anything to fit the radiator and intercooler, then I'll be getting the wire brush out and going over some surface rust in the bay then giving it a coat of paint, not sure what paint to use though, I have some black hammerite smooth but I'm not sure if I want to use it because it doesn't dry hard, my only other option is a bit of paint that I have left from spraying my bumpers that I could brush on, either that or wait for the shops to open again and get something else but that will mean more waiting, I wanted it done by now!!

 

I went to B&Q and got some thin rope that should do for holding the tent down but I haven't got it back up yet, I'm not sure if I'm going to either, so long as the weather doesn't get too bad!

[danpug 1]

Is that ice i see or have i drank too much!

[Rob Turbo 3]

Thats not ice under the car, it's gearbox oil after the wind that killed the tent also tipped over the container I drained the gearbox oil into, I think the gearbox must have been chewing itself hence the odd colour of the oil (which is silvery white, just looks white in the photos though) I'm not surprised really, It was sat outside in all weathers for a couple of years then bodged into the 306 (originaly an ax diesel box) a couple of months ago when the original box packed in!

[Rob Turbo 3]

I got the engine in today but as per usual I didn't get any photos! I did get a photo of the bit of bulkhead that I chopped out though

 

 

Even though that wasn't enough! After I chopped that bit out I went round the bay with hammerite smooth (even though I'm not too keen on it!) on the rusty bits and freshly chopped bits! I then trial fitted the radiator and intercooler and found I needed to alter a couple more bits so had to re-paint, then trial fitted the engine and found I hadn't cut enough of the bulkhead out so the engine came back out, I chopped a bit more out (about 2" towards the drivers side if anyones interested!) then re-painted then refitted the engine, I also found that the bottom mount needs extending, I've heard both that it needs and doesn't need to be done, turns out that it does!! I'll be doing the mount extending tomorrow then starting on the wiring!

 

My only other concern is the standard intercooler, I've seen this fitted to a 306 before so know it fits but when I trial fitted it the bonnet catch hits the top of the cooler so I'm not sure how it's done! I would have rang the lad that I got the engine off because he was using the same setup but with it being xmas I thought I'd better not!

 

I also trial fitted the bottom rad hose and I've decided not to use the oil cooler/heat exchanger just yet because the bottom rad hose I have with the pipe to the heat exchanger doesn't fit and won't fit without chopping quite a bit out of the chassis leg which I'd rather not do! I think I'll run it for a few weeks with no cooler then see if I can get my mits on a mocal cooler or something, for a while I'll only be running 6psi anyway because of the partial engine rebuild and turbo recon.

 

This conversion seemed much easier in the 205, probably because I had somewhere decent to work rather than outside in the cold!

 

I'm not even going to consider trying to turn the engine over until I have a timing belt cover because the fuel lines are dangerously close to the cam pulley, hopefuly miles will have something resembling something useful after I've been ignored by another nameless person (if you are reading this please get in touch, I know its xmas but I've tried to get in touch and I could still do with the cam and complete timing belt cover!!) I can't realy drive the car until friday anyway, even if I have it in running condition because I'm waiting for some gear rods and brake pads off miles which I'm told should be coming on friday, I could drive it, I have the standard rods and some mintex 1144 pads that have no retaining springs and squeal like a bi*ch! but I'd rather do it properly!

 

I also have a backup plan for the expansion tank problem, if you've been keeping up to date on the matter you will know that I'm using a 306 powersteering fluid bottle as an expansion tank which has no pressure releif valve in the cap (if you haven't been keeping up to date with the conversion you should be ashamed of yourself!!!) well Phil H kindly donated a coolant expansion cap that has proved to be very useful, it didn't fit at first but I think I have modified it to fit with a different rubber to seal it, but if this doesn't work I've bought a 'T' piece that I can fit into the top rad hose and fit the innards of the cap into that to work as a pressure relief device!

 

Please excuse the rambling and any mistakes, the girlfriend got me a bottle of jack daniels for xmas so I've been putting it to good use since about 6:00! I'm sure you all understand!!

[Rob Turbo 3]

Been rather hung over today so didn't get much done!

 

I lengthened the bottom mount and re fitted it but haven't tightened it up, got the new gear lever and rod in place for when the gear rods arrive from miles, I've put the turbo ecu in the ecu box and I've started pulling the 306 loom apart to connect it up the the s16 loom that I've modified to fit the engine.

 

I also fitted the heater matrix pipes but found that the clip that holds them in has snapped so I'm going to have to make something up to hold them in! For anyone not familiar with 306's the heater matrix pipes are both joined together and have a plastic connector block at the end that plugs into the bulk head which has a plastic clip thing on so in theory it's a simple push on and job's done, bloody peugeot, what's wrong with jubilee clips???

 

I've been eyeing up universal intercoolers on ebay today, might be easier to fit than the standard one, only problem is that'll delay the conversion even more!

 

Hopefuly tomorrow I'll get the running gear back on so I can take it off the jacks, then sort the wiring and possibly start building the exhaust!

[Rob Turbo 3]

Been busy again today, got all the running gear back on so it's sitting on its wheels again, I had a go at the wiring, I've got it all plugged into where it should be and got most of the wires that need connecting to eachother marked up for tomorrow. After the wiring I'll get cracking with the plumbing, shouldn't be too hard, all the pipes are in place, just need connecting together!

 

I should be getting the gear rods, brake pads and timing belt cover tomorrow so I should be able to fire it up briefly then if all is well, get cracking with the exhaust and be back on the road!!

[Rob Turbo 3]

Got the wiring finished today, got some HT leads and tried a test fire but got nothing! I've checked everything is plugged in but it doesn't want to play, all I can think is

 

1) Injectors plugged in in the wrong order

2) HT leads on in the wrong order

3) Not enough fuel pressure (got an adjustable regulator and while I'm cranking the pressure gauge is only moving slightly, is this normal?)

or 4) I've wired it up wrong!

 

Any suggestions? I don't know if there's a spark yet, I haven't checked, it's too dark and cold!

[welshpug 1,657]

1, I'm fairly sure its batch fired so if one injector works they all will.

 

2, wasted spark with one coil unit? check you have spark. just pull a plug lead off and crank it

 

3, why the adj FPR? standard one seems good enough for near 200 bhp.

 

4, check that the big brown relay has power AND ignition live.

 

 

if you have power at the injectors and coil it may be that you're not getting a TDC signal, without this the ECU doesnt know the engine is turning.

Edited December 28, 2007 by welshpug

[Rob Turbo 3]

I've been back down and checked for a spark and there isn't one, looking through the wiring diagrams I've found that the earth to the coil pack on a 406 is pin 3, whereas on other models it's pin 4, I wired my loom up with earth as pin 4 but I don't know what engine the coil pack is from so I may have it wired up wrong!

 

I have another coil pack that I know pin 4 is earth so I'll try that on and see if I get a spark.

 

I'm using an adjustable FPR because I had my last turbo on a RR and it was badly underfueling and only made around 160bhp because of it

[Sloppy 0]

Looks good but i would swap the froint antiroll bar for a thicker one while you have the chance (well its will be easyer) as the 1.4 will be the thinest of the 306 range, want a derv or gti/s16 one ideally.

 

you gonna put on upper and or lower strut mounts so compansate for the removeal of the bulk head, juding by shape it looks like its fairly sturctural, but as you say looks like it needed to be removed, or would if fit without removing that?

[Sloppy 0]

tis shame about 306 forum, people are ok over there but very few people do many mods (i.e worthy things like engine swaps not lexus lights ) so theres not much demand for a section, however i still think there should be one but the admin can be 'difficult'.

[Rob Turbo 3]

I've already fitted a bigger ARB when I changed the rear beam to a gti6 jobbie, front shocks to xsi and front brakes and m/c to gti6, I'm planning on upper and lower strut braces but that bit of the bulkhead isn't that structural, if it is then they didn't do a very good job of welding it, one spot weld every 10" or so!

 

It did have to be chopped out, either that or bash it in with a glaswegian spanner!

 

Also, my gear rods, mintex extreme pads and timing belt cover came this morning (Thanks Miles ), the rods were a right pain in the arse to fit, not so much getting the rods on, more trying to get the clips in, there's not exactly bags of room down the back of the engine!

 

I'm going to have to try the other coil pack on tomorrow to and re-check for a spark, also I need to find out how the HT leads go on, I know the firing order is 1-3-4-2, with #1 being at the gearbox end (according to autodata). I also had a look at the wiring diagrams and the injectors aren't batch fired, they all connect to a seperate pin on the ecu, so I've written down which pin each one goes to and I'll ring them through tomorrow.

 

I'm not going to start fitting the radiator and intercooler until it fires up, there's no point putting all that on just to take it off again to get at the wiring easier! I was hoping to have the wiring and plumbing done today so I could get cracking with the exhaust tomorrow, never mind!

[Sloppy 0]

ahh good job, you have done a 'proper job' as i would say

 

when i fitted a derv to and old gti i test fitted it first, got it running then ended up taking it back out to perfet all thse little niggles and doing a final proper fit.

 

much easyer to work on em with no front end as you can literally work on en stood around box in engine bay

 

i took bonnet off though so it was well ut of way.

 

im not far off you i would be really interested to see how the 2.0 turbo goes, im more of a derv fan and tuner so like torque, i imagine this should be quite impressive on your engine, only driven a gti and mi16 never a turbo one, you will have to take me for a spin!

 

As for the bit chopped out even though its only spot welded ever 10 inch you would be supprised how much strength this would add to the car, think of other areas such as wings and even just generally the shell which is just all spot welded together. Well worth dropping some strut braces on i would say, theres a guy on the gti6 forum who custom makes upper and lower ones for the gti's which will obviously be suitable for yours.

Edited December 28, 2007 by Sloppy

[Rob Turbo 3]

IT'S ALIVE!!!

 

I checked over everything (in the pouring rain!!) and found that the coil pack wasn't getting a live feed, pulled the cover back on the plug and the wire was snapped right at the join, so I chopped the plug off the TU loom and crimped that on instead

 

Now to tidy things up, get the plumbing done then build an exhaust!