205 1.6 Stalling

[Ethos 0]

Hi guys,

 

I've done alot of searching but wouldn't mind some more advice....

 

When I put the lights on, rear fogs + hazards the revs drop to 500 then to 1500... eventually stalling.

 

Also I just took it out for a good run and it stalled on me 3 times when pulling up to junctions this was when warm.

 

Alternator? Or fuel/air mixture? I thinking alternator as it's when I turn anything electrical on. Light on there own are okish (sometimes stalls) but anything else and it really struggles.

 

Oh and brand new battery from halfords, the beefier one of the two as well.

 

I've played with the ignition timing and it's had a full service recently.

[Batfink 201]

alternator for sure then.

[Ethos 0]

alternator for sure then.

 

Yea? Cool. There ones for sale on here for £10. They hard to swap? (Also are starter motors hard to change).

Edited November 10, 2007 by Ethos

[steve@cornwall 100]

Yea? Cool. There ones for sale on here for £10. They hard to swap? (Also are starter motors hard to change).

 

Alternator first - easy - even easier as you have power steering, don't you? It'll probably cure the starting difficulty, too. I need to change mine, so I have a couple in the boot to try If they're both ok - I'll have a spare - but it'll take a couple of days trying on the car to know for sure

[Ethos 0]

Just a thought... I was driving it today and pulled over. Put the hazards, back heater on, fans and stereo on and the revs dipped a bit. But when I put the lights on the revs then went crazy and nearly stalled.

 

The front two driving lights aren't working at the moment, could there be some some bad wiring when I turn the main lights on causing it to do this? Or do the lights just take that much more power that the other things?

[DamirGTI 342]

Hello !

 

I've had the same problems and fix this by adjusting the air/fuel mixture - play a little bit with the AFM spring tension and idle mixture screw ... if it doesn't get any better with new/spare alternator try to adjust fuel mixture (open up the AFM black cover , start the engine and mark original tooth position so that you can go back and tight toothed wheel one tooth at a time switch on all electrics , heater , lights , wait for the cooling fan to cut in etc. and see if it gets any better ... if not loosen the toothed wheel a bit - try a few combinations -> tight (when you tight the AFM spring the mixture will go on the lean side ..) 1 , 2 or 3 tooth from the original position and if that doesn't helps try other way around - loose 1 2 or 3 tooth (by doing this way the mixture will go on the rich side ..) and adjust the idle mixture screw (little allen screw on the AFM body) turn him fully inside all the way to the end then out , count 7 to 8 turns and stop there..

 

(I've tight the spring tension just one tooth back from the original position and fix this symptoms of revs dropping/varying/wandering under high electrical load )

 

hope this helps !

 

Regards

Damir

[Ethos 0]

Hello !

 

I've had the same problems and fix this by adjusting the air/fuel mixture - play a little bit with the AFM spring tension and idle mixture screw ... if it doesn't get any better with new/spare alternator try to adjust fuel mixture (open up the AFM black cover , start the engine and mark original tooth position so that you can go back and tight toothed wheel one tooth at a time switch on all electrics , heater , lights , wait for the cooling fan to cut in etc. and see if it gets any better ... if not loosen the toothed wheel a bit - try a few combinations -> tight (when you tight the AFM spring the mixture will go on the lean side ..) 1 , 2 or 3 tooth from the original position and if that doesn't helps try other way around - loose 1 2 or 3 tooth (by doing this way the mixture will go on the rich side ..) and adjust the idle mixture screw (little allen screw on the AFM body) turn him fully inside all the way to the end then out , count 7 to 8 turns and stop there..

 

(I've tight the spring tension just one tooth back from the original position and fix this symptoms of revs dropping/varying/wandering under high electrical load )

 

hope this helps !

 

Regards

Damir

 

Hi mate, yea this could help alot actually. I retracked the afm a couple of weeks ago, but didn't mess with te spring tension. Infact I did even know you could! I'll give it a search...

 

So do I have to take the black cover off to play with the AFM spring tension? Cause i've sealed it pretty tightly with silicon!

 

I've tinkered with the idle screw so she idles at around 1100-1200 which is a bit high I guess, might give the air/fuel mixture a bit of a tinker then. Although i'm guessing it'll be pretty hard to set up? Mine doesn't have a cap on it, but it's the star/hex screw below the AFM on the metal part isnt it?

 

Cheers!

[DamirGTI 342]

Hi mate, yea this could help alot actually. I retracked the afm a couple of weeks ago, but didn't mess with te spring tension. Infact I did even know you could! I'll give it a search...

 

So do I have to take the black cover off to play with the AFM spring tension? Cause i've sealed it pretty tightly with silicon!

 

I've tinkered with the idle screw so she idles at around 1100-1200 which is a bit high I guess, might give the air/fuel mixture a bit of a tinker then. Although i'm guessing it'll be pretty hard to set up? Mine doesn't have a cap on it, but it's the star/hex screw below the AFM on the metal part isnt it?

 

Cheers!

 

Yes , you need to take the black AFM cover off (it's sealed with silicone sealant - cut the sealant around the black plastic cover with a knife to let it loose and remove it..) then you will see inside toothed wheel - its locked in one tooth with a wire/pin , and first before you do anything mark with a paint this tooth on which is wire/pin clamped so that you can go back if you get lost ! then push the wire/pin up hold the toothed wheel whit your other hand (be careful as it can slip/turn all the way around and it will be hard to go back where it was before !) and move it one tooth clockwise to lean out the mixture (or try more then 1 tooth but not more then 3-4 tooths.) or anticlockwise to richen the mixture - however you will be fine with no more then 2-3 tooths adjustment in any way clockwise or anticlockwise - lean-rich , everything more then 4 tooth will be too much me thinks

 

and yes the star/hex (allen screw) on the top of the AFM body is for idle fuel mixture - just turn it fully inside and then out 7 to 8 turns and it will be fine there ..

 

Cheers !

Damir

[Phil205 1 1 Cars]

Ethos,

 

I had lot's of trouble with idling. If you look for my posts you will see !!!

 

I fixed my problem.

 

First - Sorry Damir - but I would not recommend adjusting the spring tension except as a LAST resort. You would better trying another cheap second hand AFM.

 

I would recommend :-

 

1) Buy carb cleaner from Halfords. Take off the AFM and give it a good clean with the carb cleaner and an old toohbrush. Do not brush your teeth afterwards !!!!!!! Clean out the breather hoses also.

 

2) I found on my car that there was high resistance between the ECU and the 3-pin throttle switch. This is a pig to get off, but take it off and check for good contact. If you have a meter, you can check the resistance seen at the ECU (located near to your right foot when driving).

 

My problem was then fixed !!! Very few stalls at junctions.

 

3) The air idle screw (brass) is easy to adjust. No problem.

 

4) The mixture idle screw (allen key on AFM) is easy to get at, but may be best setup by a garage with a CO meter. If they can't get the CO in range after the AFM has been cleaned, then you should a) re-track the AFM (I never managed to get that to make a difference !) and then (possibly contemplate adjust the spring tension, but that should be done by a place with a rolling road.

 

Let me know how you get on.

 

Good Luck,

 

Phil

[DamirGTI 342]

Hello !

 

Of course first thing everything must be clean as best it can be free from carbon gummy deposits - inside of the AFM , breathers , TB etc. ... but I've had all this so good , tidy and well cleaned that you could lick entire inlet system but still had this problem with massive idle speed drop and rmp wandering under electrical load , and especially when the cooling fan was cut in - the car was running like a crap on just 400-500rmp and swinging all the time up and down 400-500-400-500-600-400rmp was a good bit annoying .. anyway I've try with new battery - no luck , I've try with new alternator - no luck , try with other fuel pump/tachy relay - no luck , fix all the wiring and clean all earths and positive contacts inside the car outside the car around the engine bay - still no luck ... I've try all sort of thing i can't remember now what else i was trying in order to fix that bloody idle but was a bit complex operation .. and eventually i open up the AFM cover and tight the spring tension only one tooth adjust the idle mixture screw after and bob's your uncle - fixed !

 

1 or 2 tooths clockwise or anticlockwise wont do any harm to mid range or top end mixture - believe me I've done this adjusting with an lambda sensor -> checked the fuel mixture before and after and there was just a minor lean out after but really nothing serious what could wreck the engine at any point or rev range

 

Cheers !

Damir

 

EDIT : there's interesting info regarding air/fuel mixture here if you wish to read : http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=2055

Edited November 14, 2007 by DamirGTI

[Ethos 0]

Just a quick update....

 

Been having a play this morning, the idle mixture screw was only 4 full turns out. So I've now adjusted it to 7 out... It was 7 full turns yes, not 4.5 turns (7 half turns)?! Under high electrical load (everything I can turn on!!) the car only drops about 200rpm! No more dropping down to 500rpm and up to 1200rpm. I'm going to go to the scrappy and see if I can get some new front driving lights and give it a good test to see if it stalls!!!

 

Thanks for all your help.

Edited November 17, 2007 by Ethos

[DamirGTI 342]

Hello !

 

So it's better now ? 200 rmp. drop with all electrics on sounds good normal/usual .. is the idle speed now stable or it still varies - goes up and down a bit ?

 

You've had too rich idle mixture (screw 4 turns out from fully inside is a bit on rich side ..) , I've found on most AFM-s that the mixture screw is set up around 7-8 turns out from fully inside ... and I'm adjusting all of my AFM-s by myself (by ear/feel , by nose/exhaust smell , by reading spark plug color , and on the end of the adjustment - road test with an lambda sensor and multimeter ..) - spring tension and idle mixture screw .... i have 3 spare AFM-s and never had problems with passing MOT sniff test with any of those three AFM-s which I've adjusted by myself ..

 

I've adjusted my idle speed rock stable so that it doesn't drop not a 100rmp even if i turn on all electrics - it's always stable (apart from the fuel mixture adjusting , ignition timing helps a lot also - try to play with ignition timing , advance a little bit and see if you can make it even better/stable then this )

 

Cheers !

Damir

[Ethos 0]

Well I've picked a couple of alternators up off Steve to possibly change.

 

Did a bit more testing today, it's alot better than it was... but with everything on it's still a bit unstable so tempted to change the alternator and see if that will solve it.

 

The girlfriend is saying she'll test it for a week because she wants me to do other stuff tomorrow

[Doof 11]

Just be sure to post any findings you get, i desperately want to sort mine out!