CaptainK 11 Posted October 30, 2007 As some of you may be aware, I've been asking a few questions about oil pressure and so forth on this forum and also that my Pug 205 GTi seems a little lacklustre. I've always maintained it well over the years, and it just sprung an oil leak. So off to the garage it goes. Whilst there, I ask the garages (as they are a good lot that look after my FTO) if they can check the oil pressure to see if its my gauge or the oil pressure has actually gone. Well, just got a call today to say that my Pugs oil pressure is virtually non existent when its up to temperature and the oil leaks are coming out of camshaft/crankshaft seals (or whatever) and so forth. I'm told that this is caused by wear to the shafts caused by a lack of oil pressure. I've been told it'll cost a lot to fix it all, something I can't really afford at the moment. UNLESS I got for a straight engine swap. The thing is, the gearbox is fairly shafted too and the clutch probably needs doing too. Looks like it might be RIP for my little pocket rocket. Damn shame especially as I've just put a full tank of V-Power in it. (unless anyone local will be happy to teach me how to do a GTi-6 engine conversion into it ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maturin23 10 Posted October 30, 2007 It's not a shame it's a blessing - away with the 8v and in with a 16 valver/8v Turbo! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob_the_Sparky 9 Posted October 30, 2007 Second hand engine and boxes are cheap and sometimes available as a complete lump. You take a risk with them over condition but if you can handle a spanner they aren't that hard to swap. Done a couple myself and the second was done in a weekend with a bit of help from Anthony on one day... Rob P.S. An engine crane helps but I'm told it isn't essential. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLPoomobile 958 Posted October 30, 2007 £50-£100 for a new (2nd hand) lump and 'box, a few beer tokens to the local forum members and you'll be good for another few thousand miles while you save for 8 more valves Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danpug 1 Posted October 30, 2007 If you do get yourself an engine i'd be more than happy to put in a day or two if you cover my petrol. Don't give up on it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainK 11 Posted October 31, 2007 Wow! Thats very kind of you all. To be honest I am rather upset about the thought of losing my little Pug as I've had it for so long. I'm very impressed by the generosity of you all and if its okey with you I would love to take you all up on your more than generous offers. The situation: Whilst at cold startup its oil pressure is around 25psi(?) and when at operating temp I'm told it barely holds 10psi and fluctuates down to zero every now and then. The pressure doesn't change much when revved either. The engine also has a minor oil leak, hardly any at all - I'd been using it daily for about 2 months with no noticeable change on the dipstick. The leak is from the crankshaft (?) seals and I'm told that some bearings can be heard making noises and that the crankshaft sounds "off-balance". I guess that'd explain why its low rev performance was pants.... Unfortunately, I'm not much of a mechanic at all - I can change brake pads and change fluids and thats it. Even then I take my time over it. So I'd appreciate it if anyone can suggest some ideas for what to do with this Pug. Its essentially going to have to turn into a project car now. My thoughts: 1) Fix current engine - cost well into the £1000 price range as it'll need new oil pump, the crankshaft "regrinding", new bearings, shells and anything else the lack of oil pressure has done in. 2) Fit new replacement 1.9 8v engine - cost quoted at around £350 for labour + whatever cost of the engine. 3) Fit upgraded engine. My choice would be the GTi-6 engine + gearbox. I have no idea on cost of engine and gearbox or where I could take it to have it changed over. Now, I'm not particularly made of money but would like to keep a classic car on the road if I can. If fellow members are genuine about helping me swap an engine over I would LOVE to learn how to do this and get my hands dirty so to speak. No need to pay for your petrol as my Pug is essentially still driveable at the moment. Of course for this most generous act I would indeed reimburse you with money, beer, flowers, chocolate, hot lesbians, whatever your choice is. But for now, where can I get a GTi-6 engine from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matty_gti 20 Posted October 31, 2007 ......8v Turbo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim.Badger 15 Posted October 31, 2007 Sounds like the engine is dying so go for a transplant or 16v, as said it's not really that hard. But keep the old engine and take it apart if you have the time just to get used to dismantling an engine; you may also find the fault(s) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainK 11 Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) Just had a PM from Johnie205 and got a quote for a "drive-in, drive-out" GTi-6 conversion. Bit far away though and I dont have that kind of money at the moment. So I'll probably end up destroying the current engine for a little longer and then swap it over next year. But keep the old engine and take it apart if you have the time just to get used to dismantling an engine; you may also find the fault(s) I would do mate, but unfortunately I have no-where to put it now I've moved house and don't have a garage anymore. I've taken apart a Ford Fiesta 1.8D engine before: Main Photo Album CaptainK powered Fiesta photo (The other guy is my brother, who is a vauxhall mechanic at the Redruth main stealership in Cornwall. Before you ask, no he would not be interested in swapping the engines over for me. Thus no free car fixes ) Edited October 31, 2007 by CaptainK Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danpug 1 Posted October 31, 2007 If you are happy with the power as it is then just do a straight 8v swap. If you fancy some real power then grab a 16v. I'd forget a turbo for now as its a bit more complicated than a straight swap/valver conversion. If you need a hand then drop me a pm because no doubt i'll forget about this thread! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James_m 0 Posted October 31, 2007 Check if the crank pulley bolt is done up tight. If its loose it wont drive the oil pump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainK 11 Posted November 1, 2007 Check if the crank pulley bolt is done up tight. If its loose it wont drive the oil pump. Where might one find this crank pulley bolt? I'm not too technically minded on the Pug. I think I'm going to do 16v and get a GTi-6 conversions. Been searching this forum and doing some homework. I mean if I'm going to go to the effort of changing engines I may as well get a more powerful one. Don't worry, either way I'll try my best to save this classic car, despite it leaking in the rain, having a dented door, all of the console falling to bits, cointray don't work and the ashtray falls out every now and then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackherer 543 Posted November 1, 2007 I think I'm going to do 16v and get a GTi-6 conversions. Been searching this forum and doing some homework. I mean if I'm going to go to the effort of changing engines I may as well get a more powerful one. You wont regret it. Didn't you say in another post that you have an FTO? If so you will be relegating it to second place by making the 205 your fastest car. I gave a friend of mine a lift to buy his FTO GPX Mivec in my 205 Mi16. He was extremely dissappointed on the journey home with a 205 filling his rearview mirror and after about 5 months he sold it and got me to build him a 205 16v. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainK 11 Posted November 1, 2007 You wont regret it. Didn't you say in another post that you have an FTO? If so you will be relegating it to second place by making the 205 your fastest car. I gave a friend of mine a lift to buy his FTO GPX Mivec in my 205 Mi16. He was extremely dissappointed on the journey home with a 205 filling his rearview mirror and after about 5 months he sold it and got me to build him a 205 16v. Yeah, I have the GPX MIVEC with a manual gearbox (the Tiptronics are fun, but slow the car a lot). I have no doubt whatsoever that the GTi6 converted 205 will be much quicker in acceleration. Something I'm looking forward too as my Pug currently feels really flat and slow compared to my minor modded FTO. Yet I find the 205 a much more rewarding drive. The FTO is too smooth and too easy to drive in comparison. I'm guessing the final top speed of the 205 (whether its GTi6 or Mi16 or 8v) would be less than the FTO though due to the gearing employed on it? (5 speed manual FTO geared to about 170mph, Tiptronics are geared to silly speeds considering the engine power). Even if it was the same, I'd be too scared to take the 205 that far over 100mph. Whereas the FTO has seen me doing in excess of 145mph with no problems - don't worry officer it was on unrestricted roads. So Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLPoomobile 958 Posted November 1, 2007 Sorry to continue off topic, but I had a friend with an FTO years ago which had some minor mods, and was showing a smidge over 200bhp on a rolling road. Whether accurate or not it shouldn't really have been much less than this. Yet he felt it was never really that fast and once got left behind by a (then new) MG ZR thingy, which IIRC should have only been around 160bhp. Probably him driving like a girl though! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainK 11 Posted November 2, 2007 The FTO is a really strange car when it comes to performance. You really have to use it as it was designed - keep it in the high revs range, changing gear just before the limiter, and it'll be fast. I'm afraid to say as a member of the UK FTO owners club and attending various drag strip days and track days with them, I have to say you're mate MUST have been driving like a granny to lose to a ZR160 (or he had a automatic one - tiptronic). I've seen the old FTO beat quite a lot of faster cars that it really shouldn't be able to beat. All comes down to the driver, condition of the vehicle and so forth. Well, personally I like my FTO as its a nice "cruiser". Its got good motorway gearing and its quick enough and last but not least its one of the best looking cars on the road. Even compared to new cars (well, except things like Astons and really expensive stuff). And if you want it to go fast you can drop the next Mitsi engine up into it - the V6 280bhp TT VR4 Galant engine. If you tweak it a bit you'll get 400bhp or more and then the FTO becomes an Aston/Porsche etc killer. (we have one in the club and its nuts) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLPoomobile 958 Posted November 2, 2007 Yes, it was a Tiptronic one. His license only covers him to drive automatics (big girl) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainK 11 Posted November 2, 2007 (edited) Yes, it was a Tiptronic one. His license only covers him to drive automatics (big girl) Well that explains it then. The Tiptronic box is a lot of fun and is a fab novelty, but well know in the club as being slower. The thing also self learns, so if the previous owner drove it like a granny then it would have learnt that and will drive like a granny for you too. Only way to undo this is disconnect battery for a few hours, start it up and then go out and hammer the bejesus out of it. On the Rolling Road, difference between the manuals and tips (standard cars) are about 20bhp At The Wheels and obviously a drop in torque too - something an FTO has precious little of already Edited November 2, 2007 by CaptainK Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackherer 543 Posted November 2, 2007 My mates was a tiptronic and it was pretty much the most boring (sports) car I've ever driven. Manual shifting must make it a lot better although the steering feel was as numb as it gets, a 'cruiser' is about the best description for an FTO. Grip was impressive but not really exploitable, as you say they are easy to drive fast on the road compared to a 205 but if you take them on track the roles are reversed, the 205 is easy to corner fast in whereas the FTO has zero feedback so you just have to have blind faith in it. Even if it was the same, I'd be too scared to take the 205 that far over 100mph. Whereas the FTO has seen me doing in excess of 145mph with no problems If you replace all the 15 yr old bushes etc on your 205 it will be perfectly stable at 100mph+. I've been in 16v 205s buzzing off the rev limiter at about 145mph loads of times and if they are well maintained there is no reason for them to be unstable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
taylorspug 7 Posted November 2, 2007 Well that explains it then. The Tiptronic box is a lot of fun and is a fab novelty, but well know in the club as being slower. The thing also self learns, so if the previous owner drove it like a granny then it would have learnt that and will drive like a granny for you too. Only way to undo this is disconnect battery for a few hours, start it up and then go out and hammer the bejesus out of it. Thats quite interesting to know. Was probably why i was utterly unimpressed with one a company i worked for imported a few years back. There seemed to be like a 2 second delay between changes! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainK 11 Posted November 5, 2007 This seems to have turned into an FTO vs Pug debate. How cool. I could go into the pros and cons of both a standard 1.9 GTi and a standard 2.0 V6 MIVEC FTO (both top engines for their car) as I still currently own both. Both very good for their own reasons and both have to be driven differently to get the most fun out of them. Its why I keep two cars as I love the variety. Anyways, I'm saving for my GTi-6 now, will probably be next year sometime though as the dreaded xmas is looming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
