[engine_work] Twin Weber 1.4 8v Build

[RossD 44]

Any updates on this yet Sandy?!

[Sandy 191]

It's not been much fun this week. Getting the liner protrusion to spec in a clamped condition is proving to be very difficult. I'm not convinced these KS liners are precisely the same height as factory ones, but tomorrow I'm taking block number three (scrapped two blocks today trying to get it right) down to my pal; who works in a different league of precision to most machinists (especially me ) and has a lovely surface grinder that will be able to produce a more precise skim than a regular mill.

Today I was pretty sympathetic with those engine builders that insist on using the iron block TU (it's easier), but I've built quite a few reliable alloy blocked TUs now, so I'm not giving up!

[Sandy 191]

Got the block surface ground today. I was very tricky because the liner seats weren't sufficiently parallel with the bottom face to just clamp it down and face it off. But with some jiggery pokery we got it ground off to get exactly (within half a thou) the same clearance on all four liners. Nice

[Sandy 191]

Finally got it back together and running today. It all seems ok now and it idles lovely. The fuelling's too far out to drive it down the road properly, but it sounds fabulous just pootling about, I love these engines!

 

MOT on Monday and set up on Wednesday, all being well! Fingers crossed!

[Sandy 191]

MOT passed! The emissions needed a massage and a well chosen moment, but all's well.

[danpug 1]

Video's up soon?!!!

[Sandy 191]

Perhaps from or after setting up. Assuming John doesn't mind.

[stu_woac 1]

MOT passed! The emissions needed a massage and a well chosen moment, but all's well.

 

 

not another 205 1.4 parked around the corner then, with the probe up that instead lol

Edited November 19, 2007 by stu_woac

[Sandy 191]

LoL, for real this time!

 

That 1.4 16v hillclimber I did back along walked it with a bit of ignition swing.

[RossD 44]

Good stuff. Would be good to see some videos when they are available.

I'm getting more and more motivated to get mine finished, its just I have so much to do!

[Sandy 191]

It certainly takes dedication!

[stu_woac 1]

I seconded that

[Sandy 191]

Well, we finally got it in the rollers yesterday and my eyes are still recovering from the fumes in the workshop, but here's how it went.

 

We did a quick run to see which way the fueling was going and it wasn't lean, it was too rich! god only knows what it must have been like with those main jets on a standard engine! It took Mark a long time and several combinations of mains, emulsion tubes and airs to get the fueling to average out well across the range. We were also seeing fluctuations which turned out to be the fuel pump struggling to keep up, which we're pretty sure is down to where i'd mounted it (too high), so I had to move it down low later on.

The ignition with a distributor is always a compromise and we elected to optmise the advance at 5500-6000rpm and check that it was safe below and enough above to be satisfied. It was quite happy low down, which is good, but a touch more up top would have improved peak power slightly, but at the expense of mid range. For this engine mid range would be more important.

 

Various little issues to overcome added a few hours to the set up time, as is often the case! But we eventually concluded with the following power at the wheels:

 

RPM---BHP (at wheels)

2500---25

3000---31

3500---45

4000---55

4500---74

5000---80

6000---83

6500---86

7000---87

7500---90

 

 

It's a bit less than I was expecting at peak, which is more than likely partly the ignition compromise, partly the downpipe to system flange/neck, which is quite probably holding it back a little. None of that detracts from the noise or feel of the engine though, from 3.5-6k on the road it feels great and the induction really does play a merry tune!

 

It's customary for me at this stage to pay homage to those that helped me, in no order:

John for his patience and relentless enthusiasm for the car!

Colin Satchell for the fabrication and tolerating my "down days"!

QEP for the parts they supplied (quickly!)

Pete Willis for getting me out of the ****!

Mark Shillaber for parts supply and being old enough to set Carbs up properly!

[RossD 44]

It's a bit less than I was expecting at peak, which is more than likely partly the ignition compromise, partly the downpipe to system flange/neck, which is quite probably holding it back a little. None of that detracts from the noise or feel of the engine though, from 3.5-6k on the road it feels great and the induction really does play a merry tune!

 

Funny you should say that, I've modified my Raceland manifold by chopping the end off and attaching the end of the standard downpipe that goes over the subframe to it. I too was looking at the neck on the joint, thinking how it will restrict things a little. Do you think it's worth opening this up as far as I can without compromising the seal on the joint?

 

A great result otherwise. Just shows that even with a not quite optimum setup (i.e carb and dizzy) how much these engines repond to tuning!

 

Keep publishing your projects Sandy :-)

[Sandy 191]

I think the ultimate solution is to run under the subframe with a proper flange joint, which I've done on the Trio ok. It limits how low you can run the car, unless you scollop the subframe (as we did on that 16v 1.4 205), but that's a much bigger job than it looks, if you want a stiff subframe!

[trogboy 17]

Those results seem pretty similar to the ones that I got at the weekend for my setup. I'll dig out the figures when I get home but the preak was 87bhp at the wheels but at a lower RPM.

[jonnygoodhand 0]

I'd Just like to say thanks for all your hard work, Sandy!

 

Car sounds wonderful and pulls really well - really pleased with the whole set-up.

 

Cheers,

 

John

[trogboy 17]

Here is the graph I have of BHP and torque estimated at the fly. I can't find the breakdown of the wheel figures at the minute.

 

[Sandy 191]

Cheers John!

 

That's not a million miles away certainly, just a bit less peak torque.

[RossD 44]

Here is the graph I have of BHP and torque estimated at the fly. I can't find the breakdown of the wheel figures at the minute.

 

 

Any idea why they used 3rd gear on that dyno? I thought the ratio had to be as close to 1:1 as possible??

[felix2566 2]

Sandy,

 

Have to say, I love reading your posts. really great read, good to see how it is done properly!

Thanks for putting the effort in and keeping it updated all the time!

[trogboy 17]

RossD - I don't know why 3rd gear. I didn't give it any consideration to be honest.

 

I have to agree that I find Sandys topics interesting and the work done pretty damn inspiring. I feel that my own efforts can't be too crap if I am in the same ball park as something produced by Mr Brown et al!

 

Out of interest what chokes did you end up running?

[24seven 104]

Sandy,

 

Have to say, I love reading your posts. really great read, good to see how it is done properly!

Thanks for putting the effort in and keeping it updated all the time!

 

 

same here. I've been checking this thread daily to see how its going on. I enjoy reading his engine build threads.

[Sandy 191]

Thanks all.

 

We ran with 30mm chokes initially, but changed to 32's as an experiment, peak gained about 2bhp but everywhere else was much the same. We left the 32's in.

 

When I first got it running this time, there was an oil leak from the rocker gasket (pattern part), I changed it for a genuine one (noticeably firmer) and it seemed to be cured, went through the MOT and RR fine. But John rang me yesterday to tell me that it's developed a very seriously oil leak from somewhere. Something's clearly not right, so sadly it looks like I'll have to bring it back and take it apart again. It had a profound oil leak problem with the old engine and the only part carried over from the bottom end is the oil pump. I'm suspecting the pressure valve.

[stu_woac 1]

shame to here that but hey that how it goes if it was easy to do all this lot everyone would do it, I'm sure I'm running 34 choke in my webbers so abit surprise to here your build is on 32 Im presuming my engine needed a 34 if my tuner put it in there when playing around on the rollers lol