[engine_work] Mi16 Stage Rally Car

[philfingers 5]

What's it getting, an AB Powerflow? PAS sorted yet?

 

Phil

[Dj_mini 7]

Would you not be better off with some longer trumpets? The inlet looks mega sort.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

What's it getting, an AB Powerflow? PAS sorted yet?

 

It's already got a Powerflow system, yes, which has served me well over the years, so Andy's just going to cut it and join it to the new manifold. Has always been ~92dB mark at noise so should be good for another season yet . PAS still not plumbed up but it'll be the last thing to do, to be honest. Just got to trek into brum and get that hose made up at some time.

 

Would you not be better off with some longer trumpets? The inlet looks mega sort.

 

Do you think? It's what Longman provided along with the rest of it. I guess there's not a fat lot of room for anything *much* longer

[Jon_Bmw 13]

A great project you have got there, any idea on completion dates?

 

And when you do, its all about the videos of the noise

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Well, the exhaust option has changed as Andy took one look at the 2" system and suggested it would be restrictive on the new motor - so I need a new exhaust oh well!

 

I'm still having fun getting it started. No spark and no fueling last week, so we sent the ECU back to Longman to be checked out. It came back, "Nothing wrong". We swapped crank sensors around, but still nothing. We next suspected the injectors and, sure enough, the blue ones I sourced off here measured @2-3 ohms on a multimeter, whereas the ECU needs high impedance (>12ohm) injectors. As a temporary measure, I stuck the old 8v ones in and was honestly thinking it would fire first thing this morning.

 

No such luck. Still bugger all. Getting infuriating now!

 

A great project you have got there, any idea on completion dates?

And when you do, its all about the videos of the noise

 

Well it was originally supposed to be done for Rockingham this coming weekend, but one thing and another have put pay to that nothing else much left this year in the season, so I won't rush now, but I would like it done before christmas if possible....

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Cripes, almost 3 months, I can't believe it. In that 3 months I have been to'ing and fro'ing trying to get this engine management working. Everyone and their pet dog looked at it, to the point where we sent it back to OBR complete with the loom and at a loss to explain any of it. The good news and bad news was that the ECU was indeed faulty, something that Longman failed to pick up, and so it rather annoyingly has wasted a lot of our time. Suffice to say the new ECU came, we plugged it in, cranked her over and she started up first time.

 

I've also sorted the exhaust out thanks to Crackley Garage in Kenilworth, who've put a single box 2.25" stainless Powerflow system on it and skidded it all up ready for the stages. I just need to get the brakes bled up and sorted, plus some engine bay tidying up and re-fitting of various panels and electrics internally, and she's ready to go down to Longman for a mapping session. We've got an entry in for the Horiba D'Isis stages at MIRA next month, so it's something to aim for and push me to get cracking. Shouldn't be a problem as all the hard work is done now.... what a relief to know the engine works ok, particularly as it's been self-built so I'm always thinking "did I put that bit in?" or "did I miss that bit out?"...

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

New race battery went in today and boy does the thing crank over now. All the fluids now back in, brakes bled, just had a problem with alternator belt not being the correct length - 750 too much, 700 too short, tried a 715 but still not right so a trip to Halfords tomorrow to find one about 730-740, which should do the trick I think. What do others running an mi16 on the original 205 alternator use?

 

Just some minor wiring work on the power steering pump, tidying up the interior, then I need to make a separation plate to keep the hot air from the radiator out of the airflow for the engine. Bit more work in the morning and it should be ready for a trip around the block - the base map seems surprisingly flexible and she revs incredibly freely compared to the old 8v - looking forward to giving her some abuse

 

Will try and snap some pics tomorrow as I'm aware this thread is a bit devoid of photos

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Good work Brummers.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Friday was spent wiring up the Saxo power steering pump and fitting the appropriately-rated wiring, relay and max fuse to protect it... the main goal being, ROAD TEST!

 

Bled up the PTS pedal box and AP Racing master cylinders and the pedal pressure seems incredibly high (ie. a very firm pedal); looks like I'll be standing on these things good and proper

 

For ages I had been unknowingly running a BE1 clutch cable and pedal on my BE3 box which, to be honest, I'm not sure was a problem as it all certainly worked. The beauty of the BE1 pedal is that the cable is held into the pedal with a pin, whereas on the BE3 it just loops over a hook - and easily comes off . Well, it's all BE3 now and feels incredibly light. I'm worried about the cable unclipping off the pedal so will probably mod the pedal long-term with some sort of clip or, at least, lock wire it on.

 

Left the car running on the drive to check the thermostat worked and there were no air leaks; the result was fine. Temporarily cable-tied all the pipes and wires and we were ready for a run around the block.

 

Panelled up the doors with white plastic so they're nice and tidy, refitted the seat, panelled off the fuel tank holes and closed up the swirl pot/fuel pump catch tank.

 

Considering the EFI Euro1 ECU has a base map from Longman in it, I can't believe how well it drives. Naturally there was no full throttle/full revs shennanigans as the engine needs bedding in first, but the way it drove you wouldn't believe it needed a mapping session. Incredibly tractable, loads of grunt, you can almost tell that when this thing is all done it's going to pull like a train. I can't wait to find out what it's like when it gets on-cam

 

It's a weight off my mind knowing that the engine has gone together okay and runs sweet as a nut. Will be booking it into Longman tomorrow for a mapping session at the end of the month, which gives me some time to get some miles on the lump - and make up a fuel pressure regulator mounting bracket.

[base-1 17]

Nice, can't wait to see what it makes

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

if you could share the details on your Saxo pump wiring, that would be great .

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

if you could share the details on your Saxo pump wiring, that would be great .

 

Certainly!

 

Take a feed direct from the battery distribution block to a maxi-type fuse rated at 40A, then to a 40A+ rated automotive relay, then to the red wire on the pump. The black wire on the pump just goes to a solid ground. It's important to use a minimum of 6mm.sq wiring for this, as the pump draws a heavy current under load. For my part, since this is a competition vehicle, I wired the low current side of the relay to a switch on the dashboard fed off an ignition live, so I can turn the pump on/off separate to the ignition - but I guess road users will be better just wiring the relay to an ignition positive to turn the pump on at the same time. This means if I have a problem with a split hose on a stage, I can at least turn the pump off and save burning it out with no fluid.

 

There's not really much more to it - very simple job. When I get to work I'll fire up Visio and do a diagram

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

As we approach the end of this thread, it's about time I update with some pics as promised.

 

Spent the last few days tidying up lots of behind-the-dashboard wiring, having replaced the dash panel with some ally plate housing switches and lights for cooling fan, power steering pump, low pressure fuel pump, high pressure fuel pump, inner and outer spotlights and a spare ECU toggle/warning switch - plus the original hazard and fog light switches from Peugeot. These feed via relays in the plate below it, and are fed via trip-style fuses from the same panel too (blowing a fuse on stage is potentially a pain in the backside, so these RCD-like trips are re-settable). None of this was essential but I just wanted to tidy the area up as it was a bit of a mess before.

 

 

Engine bay in pretty much final guise, I suspect....

 

 

There's nothing pretty here, I guess. I still need to figure out what to do with the power steering pump reservoir - will probably keep an eye out for a bracket for it or something - and the oil filler/breather is hanging loose at the moment until I can figure out something neater (probably a catch tank in the long run). The fuel pressure regulator and fuses sit on a bracket which itself sits on the power steering pump bracket, which is welded atop the gearbox mount (what was the old battery tray).

 

 

You can see it a bit better in the above shot.

 

A week today it goes down to Longman for mapping but I'm a bit concerned at the moment because I can't for the life of me get it started again, even though it fired up first time last week and ran/drove round the block no problem . It's soaking the plugs and I suspect the base map doesn't take into account the higher spec injectors; it's popping and backfiring, you can almost get it started in the first few cranks but if it doesn't then it's plugs out to dry overnight, and give it another go in the morning. Too rich, I think (hope). Will be ringing Longman tomorrow hoping that they can email me a new base map to put into it so I can at least put some miles on the engine in the next week before the mapping session - I don't want to be giving it the beans on brand new rings, shells, head gasket, etc or am I worrying over nothing?

 

This time next week we should be all done and dusted, and ready for our first event at MIRA next month....

[base-1 17]

Worrying over nothing mate They could run it in on the dyno for a few minutes before they map it

 

What's on at MIRA? Might come up and watch....

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

What's on at MIRA? Might come up and watch....

 

There's an event on, the Horiba D'Isis, on 12th April, but it's (very strictly) no spectators unfortunately

 

http://www.quintonstages.qmc.org.uk/D'...20homepage.html

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Well today was the trip to Richard Longman to have it mapped - a nice 5am start to get down there at a sensible time, and I left the car with them while we set off into Christchurch for a fry-up breakfast with my mate, Mike. They spent the morning fitting the lambda sensor and harness into the car in order for Richard to map it, but also had to fix a snapped throttle cable pedal linkage at the same time (oops, sorry guys!). I'd been worried about the fueling, which was way too rich and was making the car a pig to start and certainly not very road-useable up until the day. The fuel pressure needed setting but also the base map didn't take into account the 305cc Bosch injectors so it was just overfuelling - I hoped.

 

The good news was as soon as the lambda sensor was in and they started tweaking, you could hear it get itself sorted and finally the car was running how it was supposed to. A weight off my mind!

 

So Richard set off on the road to map it up properly and, to cut a long story short, returns 20 minutes or so later with most of it done, but white plumes of smoke from the exhaust. Oh dear, this doesn't look all that great.

 

We wrapped it up, got it back on the trailer, got home and split the engine down to confirm it was indeed what we'd thought - head gasket gone. The cause was clearly that the cylinder head bolts were not up to torque, which we were at a loss to explain as I did them, and I remember doing them right... until we pointed the finger at my torque wrench, which seems suspiciously "low" reading according to Mike. So it looks like they were never done up tight enough by myself still, no harm done, so we'll put it back together tomorrow night and she should be up and running again. Several litres of brand new oil down the pan, and another set of genuine Pug head bolts (not cheap) and a head gasket, and the trip costs, but thankfully nothing more than that - could have been a lot more expensive I guess. Probably need another trip back down to Richard to finish off the map at some point, which is a bit of a PITA but can't be helped.

 

So thankfully only a minor setback - ulp :S

Edited March 31, 2008 by brumster

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

New head gasket back on last night, and the reason for the loose head bolts was indeed clarified - one knackered torque wrench. It was seriously low. Very annoying but I feel semi-absolved of blame, even though I should maybe have questioned the torque when I did them up originally (did it not pass my mind that "boy, these don't feel very tight?!"). Only problem now is the sump has got to come off, the PTS baffle too (pain in the arse to fit/remove), the oil pump and then re-check all the bottom end main caps and big ends, as they were torqued up with the same tool. Fecking thing!

 

Thankfully the ARP bolts aren't nearly as highly torqued and they're torqued up in a different method, which I think is why it didn't throw a rod while being mapped - or else I'm just Mr.Golden Balls this week (doesn't feel like it, though). Only 10 days to next rally and counting - nothing like "at the last minute", is there

[base-1 17]

Bad luck there mate, as you say though pretty lucky if there's no shell damage..... hopefully everythings alright.

 

Is it a Euro1 EFI you have yeah? What do Longmans charge to remap one of those if you don't mind me asking? PM me if you'd rather

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Bad luck there mate, as you say though pretty lucky if there's no shell damage..... hopefully everythings alright.

 

Is it a Euro1 EFI you have yeah? What do Longmans charge to remap one of those if you don't mind me asking? PM me if you'd rather

 

Aye. Thankfully Richard isn't an idiot so he didn't run it hot or with no oil - water into the oilways, not the other way round, so no damage done except to my pride

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Well it's back together and Mike and I just took it for a 'spin' around the local roads to make sure it's all good.

 

It is good. It is all good. Spin is the word - it didn't stop spinning until I got it into 4th gear

 

Considering it's only part-mapped it must be 95% there because apart from lumpy part-throttle running, it's fine on full whack. Sheez, I'm buzzing, but then I've been stuck with a blueprinted 8v for the past 5 years so this is a new experience for me

 

Will give it a good clean tomorrow and maybe try and get some vid taken for yers'all. Roll on MIRA next Saturday....

[chownr 0]

Well done Dan

 

Looking forward to catching up next weekend and comparing notes

 

Rich

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Well, after a successful run at the Horiba D'Isis Stages today I think I can satisfactorily, and happily, bring this thread to a close. The car went great (well, as far as the engine is concerned!) and we brought it home 4th in class. Between Andy Baker, Rich Chown and myself we kept the 205 end up, guys and we did the cars proud too, proving that they're more than a match for far more expensive machinery.

 

I suppose in closing I should pass comment on the engine, as that's what some people may be browsing this thread for reference. I think it's turned out great value for money. The idea of a bog standard engine bar the throttle bodies and cams has worked well, it pulls cleanly from low down and there's no sign of it stopping all the way to 8k if I dare, the cat cams work great and the whole thing is very driveable - on mapped bodies like this, I wouldn't even consider it a lairy cam - it's very civilised as things go.

 

No idea what the power is but I'll get it rolling roaded eventually as I'm sure that's what you will all wonder . It's certainly quick enough for me, anyway..... I love it; finally the car feels 'complete' - all the bits now seem to be on a par with each other.

 

Oil surge? Well, I was running too thin an oil at 0W-40 but it was nowhere near as bad as some people make out. It never went to *zero* but just dropped below the 25psi trigger point on my SPA digital gauge at hard braking/low engine speeds, or very tight nadgery left/right switchbacks... but on big long sustained corners, on X12 CR311 Dunlops, on sticky MIRA tarmac, the pressure didn't faulter once. So it's obviously only low-speed stuff I need to keep an eye on.

 

Suffice to say I'm a happy man. Now all you lot who requested a vid can have one - it's uploading as we speak....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHgYnzJvFzA

Edited April 12, 2008 by brumster

[base-1 17]

Good stuff, well done mate

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

man i so much when you out dragged the scoob

 

nice work, your car certainly goes some.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Thanks guys. Yeah, my co-driver thought it was amusing too ("wa-hoooo" indeed!) first time I've seen him get that excited on a rally!