Td Running Problems

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

My STDT has temporarily died, presently for reasons unknown. Got me home from work last night OK thankfully as I've no breakdown cover.

 

Wierdest thing but when I got to work yesterday morning the engine was hunting a little (rev counter doesn't work) but it started first turn as usual when I left home but felt like it was surging a little after running for five minutes & on a constant throttle.

 

When I left work yesterday it took a couple of cranks to fire & occsionally surged at idle when cold & also when driving.

 

Stopped at my mum's on my way home & looked under the bonnet with it running, couldn't hear anything odd or spot anything obvious.

 

When I drove it home later it ran a little lumpy & then totally died when I'd parked here & was going to look under the bonnet. Wouldn't restart afterwards either.

 

I've checked for water in the fuel, its clear & I was going take the rocker cover off as Anthony snapped the cam on his STDT when he had one but I can see the servo pump turning when I crank it so thats not my prime suspect.

 

I tried it this afternoon & got nothing, battery was almost dead after a few tries so I put jump leads across from my GTi & it cranks fine, nice & fast (maybe too fast).

 

I had the same (battery) volts at the stop solenoid & glowplugs when I tried so I'm scratching my head at present.

 

I'm going to charge the battery tonight & once its back on crack an injctor union to check if fuel is getting through tomorrow hopefully.

 

Anyone got any other suggestions on what else to try? Once its back on one battery I'll see how fast its cranking over, if its lots fast than usual I'll start checking for obvious head gasket signs or other reason for liost compression (valve clearances).

 

I'm going to replace the fuel filter soon & if the head has to come off for any reason it'll be getting replacement injectors whilst its all apart.

 

Graham.

[pugman211 0]

might be way off track here, but check the timing belt, as my dads car had something similar to this once. Couldnt work out what it was, but when he sent it to Peugeot and they stripped it down. They said the timing belt had slipped, therefore making the pump open and close at the wrong time. i could be way off track tho. so no shouting!!! lol

[MikeHunt79 0]

It could be a comination of things, but I'd double check yer fuel filter. It could be that one of the glowplugs has gone also. DO you have access to a multimeter with a (hall effect) clamp? You can see which plugs are pulling current very easily with one of these.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Thanks for the replies, I haven't had chance to look at it again since posting due to weather & work but I'm off to have a look soon with a fully charged battery.

 

I'll check the cambelt tension & timing pins are all OK, (might fit a new belt while I'm at it), replace the fuel filter & I've a spare stop solenoid I can try from another diesel pump I have kicking around.

 

Injectors have been suggested but I don't think they would fail quite so immediately without giving other signs of impending death (poor economy, difficult starting etc, both of which haven't been there until the day it died).

 

While its off the road I might even swap back to the proper TD gearbox this weekend.

 

I'll update any progress.

 

Graham.

[Anthony 1,003]

Don't mean to sound alarming, but this is the sort of thing mine did shortly before it grenaded itself...

 

In my case, I think the root cause was a failing headgasket which made it difficult to start on occasion (and a big puff of white smoke for a few seconds once it did start, usually initially running on 2/3 cylinders) and would hunt/surge at idle/low-revs when it started to burn its own oil.

 

Certainly I'd check for the obvious signs of headgasket failure (losing coolant, pressurised coolant pipes) and for evidence of blow-by (strong pulsing from the oil filler with the engine running) and prehaps consider taking out breakdown cover

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I haven't checked it yet, I got a phone call just after posting from my mum, her car has failed the MOT on emissions & rear brake effiency so I've got at least an afternoon this weekend getting that sorted.

Don't mean to sound alarming, but this is the sort of thing mine did shortly before it grenaded itself...

It doesn't sound alarming, my first thought's when it showe the uneven idling was of your STDT's death.

 

In my case, I think the root cause was a failing headgasket which made it difficult to start on occasion (and a big puff of white smoke for a few seconds once it did start, usually initially running on 2/3 cylinders) and would hunt/surge at idle/low-revs when it started to burn its own oil.

 

Certainly I'd check for the obvious signs of headgasket failure (losing coolant, pressurised coolant pipes) and for evidence of blow-by (strong pulsing from the oil filler with the engine running) and prehaps consider taking out breakdown cover

I think the biggest hurdle to overcome here is I need to get it running again to check all these things.

 

I spoke to a friend that used to work for Citroen earlier (now has his own specialist Pug & Citroen garage) & his first thing was an air leak. Air & water are pretty much the only things that will stop a diesel.

 

Last time it ran, there was no signs of smoke in car headlights that were following, even at higher rpm but I'll check the oil & water level's although the oil will be out as its been on axle stands since Wednesday.

 

I'll still take the rocker cover off & see if there are any signs of a snapped camshft or oil & water mixing.

 

Graham.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

In the last 1 1/2 hours I've done a few checks & I think I've found my problem.

 

First of all I tried cranking it just in case but it didn't start so I cracked the injector pipes, fuel seeped out straight away & then cranked it over, fuel is getting to the injectors fine so imo that rules out the stop solenoid & hopefully the pump. (It ran fine with no power loss right up until it died completely.)

 

I then took the rocker cover off to check for the worst of a snapped cam. All is fine, actually nice & clean for a 160k engine.

 

I figured with the rocker cover off I'd check my valve clearances as one of my previous n/a 205 diesels suddenly lost the will to run smoothly & these were the problem.

 

The results;

• Inlet; should be between 0.01' & 0.025'. Exhaust; should be 0.025' - 0.040'.
  
• #1 cylinder. Inlet = 0.001' Exhaust = 0.005'.
  
• #2 cylinder. Inlet = > 0.001' <0.0015'. Exhaust = 0.01'
  
• #3 cylinder. Inlet = 0.0045' Exhaust = 0.01'
  
• #4 cylinder. Inlet = 0.0045'. Exhaust = 0.01'
  

Unless I'm doing something seriously wrong measuring the clearances, I think thats the cause.

 

Cam is coming out over the weekend & I'll get some new shims made up next week.

 

Are the XUD's well known for suddenly loosing the valve clearance's? This is the second one its happened to for me.

 

I'll report more once I've done.

 

Graham.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I was speaking to my local Pug parts dept today & they said it does sound like an air leak somewhere before the pump.

 

The head for the filter set up fitted to the 205 STDT is £100 (its still available ) but I got all the bits to change to the small head mounted filter set up today, looks about two hours work but I need to get some fuel pipe to run from the rigid at the back of the engine bay to the priming pump ball on this set up.

 

I now realise its not the valve clearances that are to blame but I want to set them properly now I've discovered they are that far out & seeing as I've got it partially stripped I'll do them now.

 

Graham.

[sutol 0]

I was speaking to my local Pug parts dept today & they said it does sound like an air leak somewhere before the pump.

 

Graham.

 

I would suspect a fuel blockage, perhaps the filter.

Won't be injectors as they are mechanical and usually warn of impending failure well before.

When a diesel engine is running out of fuel it tends to surge so I would say blocked fuel filter.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

All apart now, I just need a new gasket for the thermostat housing tomorrow, some fuel pipe, the new filter (hope they'll exchange the one I got on Friday) & I can fit it back together.

 

I was going to do the valve clearances as well but I want to check it runs after this first so I'll do them once its alive again.

 

Graham.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Its not running again yet but it's getting very close.

 

I just need a different oil strainer neck to allow for the different placment of the cold start cable on the new style thermostat housing I'm fitting which I should've got today but didn't.

 

The thermostat housing I got last week was from a 306 which I though might explain why it didn't clear the breather offtake at the back so I went back to the scrapyard I got the bits from last week & they had got a 205 diesel in since then (L reg 68k:o) so I swapped the 306 bits for the 205 ones but I should've got the strainer neck.

 

Got the proper priming bulb hose as well with the straight fitting instead of a 90' one.

 

Got hom,e & removed the oil fuel pipes from the back of the engine bay to the water heater & up to the old filter. I think I've found the cause, the rubber hose from the heater to the filter had perished severly & was cracked I found out when I removed it so it would be letting air in.

 

All new pipes fitted now so once I've got the strainer neck it should be done in a few hours on Tuesday.

 

Looks much neater already with the later thermostat housing & fuel piping.

 

Gaham.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Good news, its fixed & back to smoke again.

 

Turns out it was simply the fuel pipe that had perished/ cracked & was letting air in.

 

Got it all back together this morning but the thermostat gasket was leaking (when cold & unpressurised) so I drained the cooling system again & took the cap off. My own fault as I swapped the cap for on with an oil water heat exchanger pipe offtake & didn't fit a new gasket.

 

My local Citroen garage didn't have a thermostat gasket in!!

 

Luckily I had one that had only been used for a couple of weeks on my GTi so I used that & its sealed fine now.

 

I'm going to put a few miles more on it driving to work this week & then look at doing the valve clearances soon.

 

Under the bonnet looks much better than previously. I used a 306 oil strainer & dip stick instead.

 

I've also got the new 106 S2 Rallye wheels fitted but it was to late when I got in from the 40 mile test drive today to take a photo. I'll take one soon, they are almost glowing they are so white.

 

Graham.

[jim21070 2]

Great stuff Graham It's amazing how much havoc a bit of air can cause to an oil burner...

 

I'm going to put a few miles more on it driving to work this week & then look at doing the valve clearances soon.

 

I have a little Excel Spreadsheet that takes all the pain out of the maths when doing valve clearances Graham.

 

If you want a copy, PM me.

 

(I did try to attach it to this post but the forum dislikes .xls files )

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I have a little Excel Spreadsheet that takes all the pain out of the maths when doing valve clearances Graham.

 

If you want a copy, PM me.

 

(I did try to attach it to this post but the forum dislikes .xls files )

pm on its way any second now thanks Jim.

 

That will be very handy & save what could possibly be a head scratching few minutes.

 

Drove fine for the 50~ mile round trip to work today, I've set the ciold start cable a little lose but I don't idle for very long once it fires (first turn again )

 

You could try to zip the file & then upload it, I'm sure I've done it that way before with an xls file.

 

Graham.

[jim21070 2]

You could try to zip the file & then upload it, I'm sure I've done it that way before with an xls file.

 

Graham.

 

 

Zipped and uploaded Graham Brief usage instructions are on the actual sheet.

 

Hope you find it useful. It was going to be more automatic in that it would work out the nearest shim and display its part number but that never got done. However the sheet does contain a table of shims and their part numbers.

 

XU_Shim_Calculator.zip