Clutch - I Think It Needs Changing. 1.9.

[Guest timH]

Any help much appreciated.

I've come to the conclusion that the bad vibrations / no vibrations type thing that's been going on with my car, must be something to do with the clutch.

 

The gearchanges started getting almost impossible to find reverse. Then there was a terrific vibration that started & then stopped all of a sudden. I don't think it's engine related, as the oil pressure is very good, and there's no knocking from the big ends.

 

Now it makes a goddam awful noise (chalk on blackboard type) when the clutch is depressed, and the clutch take up is becoming a bit jerky, and releasing right at the bottom., and still vibrating.

 

The car may even have a paddle clutch, that's lost material from one of the paddles, but i'm clutching at straws here. - or could it be the gearbox that's failing?

 

Q1. Is it likely to be the plate / release bearing breaking up, causing an imbalance, and therefore a vibration.?

 

Q2. Is it easily done by myself, and how long should it take?

 

Q3. or do I take it into Mr Clutch & get striped.

 

gutted, as i've got a track day next Friday too, and very little time to change it.

 

thanks

 

Tim

Edited May 30, 2003 by timH

[perfecto pug 0]

hmmm sounds like your release bearing is knackered, but your clutch could also be on its way out.

 

you could get an uprated clutch kit, or even get hold of a 215mm flywheel from a mi16 or turbo diesel, as this would last longer especially as you use it mainly for trackdays.

 

i would not reccomend any mr clutch type places because of the quality of the parts (s*it) and the quality of some of their work is average to say the least. (just ask jackherer)

 

the clutch itself is easy to change and getting the gerabox off is easy enough after you have disconnected and drained everything, its putting the gearbox back on which is the bastard as it needs to be totally lined up with an even gap all round before you will get any joy (not easy to do on your own but i have done it and it is possible)

 

if you dont fancy doing it, check out your local garages (good ones obviously) and even peugeot have been found to do it quite cheap (try curry's as they are generally quite good)

 

one last tip, check the splines in the clutch engage the output shaft on the gearbox ok, as some people on here have reported it having burrs which caused the clutch to not slide on

 

price

 

about £60 plus VAT from GSF, eurocarparts (for a valeo OE type)

 

about £85-120 from pug (depends if they have any offers on)

Edited May 30, 2003 by perfecto pug

[Guest ScoobyJawa]

I've got a brand new OEM Valeo one thats just slightly burred on the splines that the input shaft goes into and needs a very small amount of filing to fit, otherwise its fine. Yours for 45 quid if you want it - 15-20 quid less than GSF.

 

Failing that - AVOID Mr Clutch. When mine went I phoned them and Peugeot - Peugeot was 3 quid more expensive - I know where I'd rather go. I did it myself and it was an absolute bitch. However, considering Pug quoted me 179.99 fitted and its about 120 quid for the clutch from them alone I thought that was damn good..........

Edited May 30, 2003 by ScoobyJawa

[Guest timH]

Scooby Jawa, just read your thread when you tried to do yours. - seemed like hard work @ the time, especially in February!.

 

Hi Jim, (Perfecto) are you up for it? - I need the job doing and i'll pay handsomely (like last time).

 

Tim

[Guest timH]

Jim (Perfecto) is going on his hols,

 

Pug want £220 for the job complete. (but can't do it till Wednesday)

 

GSF want £59 + VAT for the bits, so....... £150 difference.

 

I think i'll have a go at it myself.

 

watch this space.

 

Toomey Peugeot came back with £450! - (i'd want a new car thrown in as well)

 

So Sod it, i've booked it in @ Mr Clutch - £163 all in. - I quizzed the bloke there about the parts they fit, and he reckons everything's brand new except the spline and the cover. - I even asked how long the fitters have worked there. & if I can watch the fitting.

 

One thing I am unsure on is - driveshaft Oil seals, do I need to get them to fit new ones? - as they are saying they'd be £30 per side - if I asked for them - so they obviously don't think I need new ones.

 

Surely they can't be that bad? - after all they fit clutches all the time don't they?.

Edited May 30, 2003 by timH

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

If you haven't got the time to do it yourself, I'd look around for an independent Pug specialist.

I've heard to many bad reports on Mr clutch and places similar.

 

It is only a day of a job to do on your own, if there are two of you it's easier when it comes to refitting the gearbox (the trickiest bit of the whole job IMO)

 

Buy the oe clutch from GSF and find a trusted local garage to do it for you.

 

If Mr Clutch say everything is new except the spline and cover, then they are only replacing the friction plate and possibly not the release bearing.

 

You should get a cover in the clutch kit so why they don't fit that ??? The release bearing might come with the kit (I'm not sure).

 

The driveshaft seals are worth doing while it's apart, they have changed the design and they are better sealing now. They are about £8 each side from Peugeot and £2.50 or something from GSF. £30 is well over prced for a five minute job of fitting them.

 

Graham.

[Guest timH]

Pugtorque - I know, I know, I know, but.......

 

I really haven't got the time to do it myself.

Mr Clutch do replace the release bearing, I asked him. - he reckoned that of 27 parts, they replace 25. - the ones they don't are the spline, and the cover.

 

I really dislike taking my cars anywhere, and they can't ALL be bad, can they? -

 

but i'm a bit over a barrel here, as I couldn't start the car till Tuesday evening and i've got Bruntingthorpe on Friday.

 

btw, I replaced the driveshaft oil seal a month or 2 ago.

 

Tim

[Guest ScoobyJawa]

Mr Clutch really are crap mate - avoid. If you have a 1.1 festa fair enough but not a GTI. There have been sooooo many bad things said about their clutches its silly - even on Watchdog!

 

Also, the kit comes with the plate, cover and release bearing and the alignment tool. Other option is to buy the Clutch from GSF and get a local independant place (Pug specialist would be good) to do it!

 

My Pug dealer quoted 179.99, Ian Allen in Old Woking - can you not get yours to price match

 

As for hard work at the time - sure was! never again!!! lol!!!

 

BTW - LMFAO @ 30 a side for the seals!!! about 3 quid from GSF and about 8 or so each from Pug.

[blue1.9 0]

You could always buy an OEM clutch kit (including the cover) and the oil seals yourself and ask if Mr Clutch will fit it all while you watch.....don't know what they would charge, but at least you'd know the parts were good!

[Guest timH]

You could always buy an OEM clutch kit (including the cover) and the oil seals yourself and ask if Mr Clutch will fit it all while you watch.....don't know what they would charge, but at least you'd know the parts were good!

good idea -

 

That's what i'll do.

 

Just asked, They'll provide the labour for £110 inv VAT. - and i'll pick up the full kit from GSF.

 

Tim

 

update - Partco have got them in, and they're only 2 mins from where I live, and he matched GSF's price -

 

REEESULT. - thanks for all the help and suggestions chaps.

Tim

Edited May 30, 2003 by timH

[blue1.9 0]

good idea -

[Guest ScoobyJawa]

Prefered my suggestion:

 

Also, the kit comes with the plate, cover and release bearing and the alignment tool. Other option is to buy the Clutch from GSF and get a local independant place (Pug specialist would be good) to do it!

 

At least a specialist knows the cars unlike the Mr Clutch (just like Kwik Fit etc) muppets who don't and work on all types

 

Still, if your watching, you'll prob be ok

[Guest timH]

also, forgot to say, it's booked in for 9am Tomorrow. - I am a tad impatient.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Mr Clutch do replace the release bearing, I asked him. - he reckoned that of 27 parts, they replace 25. - the ones they don't are the spline, and the cover.

OK TimH I understand that your're short of time for doing it so get a trusted garage to do it instead.

 

27 parts to a clutch ! Where?

 

1. Friction plate.

2. Pressure plate/cover. Why they don't fit the new one that comes with the clutch kit ??

3 Release bearing.

4. driveshaft oil seals.

5. ??

 

Unless they replace the bolts holding the pressure plate to the flywheel as well, that takes it up to about 10 IIRC.

 

The spline is a part of the gearbox so I understand they don't stip the gearbox to replace it.

 

Because you have replaced the driveshaft oilseals recently they shouldn't need doing again.

 

Find out what clutch they will be fitting because if it is a cheap one it might only last for the Bruntinthorpe session and it'll probably invalidate any warrenty you get with the clutch if it does die soon after IMO.

 

Good luck and I hope it all goes well whatever you end up doing and last a decent length of time.

 

I'm with scoobyjawa on this one too.

 

Graham.

[Guest timH]

good idea -

 

That's what i'll do.

 

Just asked, They'll provide the labour for £110 inv VAT. - and i'll pick up the full kit from GSF.

 

Tim

 

update - Partco have got them in, and they're only 2 mins from where I live, and he matched GSF's price -

 

REEESULT. - thanks for all the help and suggestions chaps.

Tim

Thanks for your concern, but I think you may have missed what I posted above.

 

I'm supplying the parts, and Mr Clutch are fitting. - well that's the plan anyway.

 

Remember chaps, this car cost me £300! - and it ain't no oil painting. - My girlfriend wants me to scrap it!

[perfecto pug 0]

well at least you are going to be using a decent quality clutch

 

the mr clutch clutches are extremely poor quality and the friction material will wear away very fast at not much torque (comparable to cheap brake pads)

 

for £220 at pug compared to £180 at mr clutch i would be swayed towards pug and try to get them down a bit cheaper

 

lol at toomeys for £450 they have always been jokers with their prices, even with new cars, my dad is looking to get a new pug expert van and toomey want £14,000, but we got curry's down to £12,000

[Guest ears]

sorry to hijack timH,

 

but is replacing the clutch easier / possible with the engine removed from the car?

If this is possible would you recommend doing it with the engine out?

(obvously not remove the whole engine just to change clutch, but if the engine is already out)

 

cheers

 

James

[Guest puggti]

y wudnt it be possible with the engine out!?!?!?!

[Guest ears]

I suppose there is no real reason.

I was not sure that is why I was asking.

 

I assume that it is alot easier then. No limited for working space and easier to hold the engine in place etc.

[jackherer 543]

when Jim said the quality of these fast fit clutch places work is "average" he meant "dangerous"

 

A mate of mine bought a non running 205 1.9 that we found only had one bolt holding the gearbox in after a cheapo clutch job...

 

do the job yourself so you know its right, the only difficult part is physically lifting/fitting the gearbox back into position.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

but is replacing the clutch easier / possible with the engine removed from the car?

If this is possible would you recommend doing it with the engine out?

(obvously not remove the whole engine just to change clutch, but if the engine is already out)

Replacing the clutch wirth the engine and box out of the car is an absolute piece of piss, you could probably do the whole thing including splitting the engine & box in an hour IMO.

 

Like you said it wouldn't be quicker to remove the engine & box to do it but if they are already out of the car it's so easy.

 

Graham.

[Guest timH]

Wahey - done.

 

The fitter at Mr clutch (southend) was a star.

 

I watched the whole fitting, (with a hangover). - took 2.5 hours - non stop. (at times there were 3 of them on the car, mainly on refitting it.

 

I've had an excellent experience, mainly due to the competence of the fitter. - He was very communicative, and didn't just plough on in silence.

 

Now - the prognosis.

The bellhousing was barely attached to the engine!, only held on with 2 bolts. Meaning that there was a gap, and it was putting big pressure on the gearbox & clutch.

 

He showed me the clutch after it was removed, and a couple of the springs had become detached (hanging off actually) near the spline,

 

He managed to find a couple of extra bellhousing bolts. Told me one of the bolt threads into the gearbox was stripped, and he locktited the rest on.

 

Very pleased with the result. - Oh, and apparently Peugeot's like these are notorious for 'rattling' their bellhousing bolts loose.

 

I feel a bit of a though for not spotting it in the first place!.

 

Otherwise, very pleased indeed, and after watching the car be done, I don't think I could have done the job myself in less than a day (unless i bought a set of Garage hoists, and an air compressor and a lot of air tools, and a couple of mates to support the gearbox.

 

Tim - so - roll on Brunters on Friday.

Edited June 1, 2003 by timH

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Glad to hear that it all went well and there was no nigtmare stuff with the fitters being useless.

 

Good luck at Brunters.

 

Graham.

Edited June 1, 2003 by pugtorque