danpug 1 Posted August 29, 2007 As above, are all 306 hubs the same? i've been offered a set off a W plate xs, will these be the same as gti6? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,003 Posted August 29, 2007 There's atleast three different types that I know of: 205 1.9 style "solid cast" ones 205 1.9 style "solid cast" ones with 18mm balljoint 306 GTi-6 "hollow cast" style ones with or without ABS (mostly late cars only) The 18mm balljoint ones are no good to you, but the others should be the same fitment that I'm aware of Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 191 Posted August 29, 2007 They will have different strut inclination to the 205, which reduces negative camber. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danpug 1 Posted August 29, 2007 Sounds like its best to give them a miss then! Thanks guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,003 Posted August 30, 2007 They will have different strut inclination to the 205, which reduces negative camber. So 205 ones might be a nice upgrade for 306's? What is the difference in camber between 205 and 306 hubs, and for that matter if you have the figures, ZX/Xsara/Berlingo hubs? I assume that it's a fraction of a degree, as I'm sure that my 205 has one 205 and one early 306 hub on it at the moment, and yet it drives well and to the eye the camber looks the same on both sides (hence I assumed they were the same)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonnie205 1 Posted August 30, 2007 having set up a rally car on 306 and 205 hubs beofre, the camber didnt seem to change, maybe there is diffences but i have never detected any Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 191 Posted August 30, 2007 There might be variations in the 306 hubs, but there's definately a difference between (205/309) and 306 ones I've had, about 45' I reckon. I ran 306 S16 ones on my old old 309 Mi16 and it always felt a bit understeery. When I drove it back to back with a regular GTi, it was quite noticeable. Then I tried to fit a new late (cheap ebay find) 306 upright on my current 309 and the difference was blatant. I bought another 306 one to match and it was fine. (Although one is 16mm pin and one is 18mm! I'm using 306 arms now with both size ball joints to match the uprights!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,003 Posted August 30, 2007 Interesting. I need to replace the hubs on my 205 anyway as I've ovalled one of the balljoints, and I've a pair of replacements from a Xsara VTS and a pair from a Berlingo van sat that I was going to use. I don't have a proper camber gauge, but I'm sure that I can rig up some crude method of doing a before and after test... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 191 Posted August 30, 2007 Re-drilling the top mount location should redress the balance ok. A spirit level and some trigonometry will get you closer than many "laser alignment" operators. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pug_ham 244 3 Cars Posted August 30, 2007 Taken from Autodata; Front settings for a 1993-97 306 2.0 16v (XU10J4L/Z); Toe-in (N=negative, toe out) mm; 1-3 Toe-in deg: 0"10' - 0"30' Toe-in deg-1/100: 0.17-0.50 Camber deg: 0"50'N - 0"10'P Camber deg-1/100: 0.83N - 0.17P Castor - deg: 2"50' - 3"50' Castor deg-1/100: 2.83 -3.83 306 1997-01, XU10J4RS; Toe-in (N=negative, toe out) mm; 1-3 Toe-in deg: 0"9' - 0"27' Toe-in deg-1/100: 0.15-0.45 Camber deg: 0"55'N - 0"5'P Camber deg-1/100: 0.92N - 0.8P Castor - deg: 3" - 4" Castor deg-1/100: 3 -4 Citroen berlingo varies from model to model & year to year, any idea what your hubs are from Anthony? Graham. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,003 Posted August 30, 2007 Citroen berlingo varies from model to model & year to year, any idea what your hubs are from Anthony? Honestly have no idea - number plates were missing, and the engine had already been removed so all I can tell you is that it was a diesel... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pug_ham 244 3 Cars Posted August 30, 2007 Honestly have no idea - number plates were missing, and the engine had already been removed so all I can tell you is that it was a diesel... Aren't they all? New shape or old? Have a look through your autodata & see if you can find the model it could've been, there are too many vairatnts for me to choose from. Graham. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackherer 543 Posted August 30, 2007 Aren't they all? I was looking at a massive fleet of dual fuel (petrol/lpg) Berlingos the other day! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 191 Posted August 30, 2007 The strut inclination relative to the hub face is the compatibility issue, which isn't necessarily related to spec camber angle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danpug 1 Posted August 30, 2007 Are all gti6 hubs the lighter type? Going by pugtorques data he posted, how much effect would gti6 hubs really have? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,003 Posted August 31, 2007 Are all gti6 hubs the lighter type? That I've seen, yes, all GTi-6 hubs are the slightly lighter hollow-cast type. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danpug 1 Posted August 31, 2007 Thanks. How much real-life effect is the slight loss of camber going to have? Any idea of the weight saving a gti6 hub has over a cast 205 one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,003 Posted August 31, 2007 Thanks. How much real-life effect is the slight loss of camber going to have? Any idea of the weight saving a gti6 hub has over a cast 205 one? If you're running 309 wishbones I can't see that it'll be an issue, but 205 wishbones (which in my opinion don't give enough camber anyway) might not be too good - losing further camber off that would lead to increased outer edge tire wear and less grip on fast sweepers I'd imagine. That said, I know I've fitted 306/ZX hubs to my cars before, and I noticed no ill effects (running 309 wishbones) although it was hardly a fair or scientific before and after test I didn't weigh the two hubs so I don't know the exact weights of them - the difference in weight was noticeable just holding them, but not as big as I thought it would be - I'm guessing about half a kilo per side, or something in that order? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danpug 1 Posted August 31, 2007 Thanks alot for your help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
