Engine Starts For Few Seconds, Then Cuts Out. Why?

[tompaltridge 0]

The car is a stock gti 1.9 1990 ph2.

 

I was merrily driving to Asda to get some food a few days ago and the engine had only been running a few minutes, so was warming up. All of a sudden (it really was instant) the engine basically went dead on the dual carridgeway! It was as if I'd turned off the engine at 50mph and was just turning the block over because the wheels were still going.

I was being slowed pretty quick from the breaking effect of not having the engine on as you can imagine, and pulled over - the rescue service took me home.

 

I've tried the car today and it will fire from cold, it will rev cleanly with no lumpyness at it's usual 1500 odd rpm, then after no more than about 5-6 seconds the revs will drop over the course of another 2-3 secs max. The engine will then cough and splutter as it decends past 500prm, and die.

 

After a few mins I'd start it again: it would fire fine, idle at 1500rpm and then drop off and die again in exactly the same way.

 

I have a known good AFM and SAD so I duly replaced them to eliminate them as the cause, and hey presto; they weren't the cause.

I checked all breather pipes and none are blocked/kinked.

 

I don't suspect the ignition system because it revs very smoothly, as per usual, for the few seconds it is alive. It's not lumpy or chogging, just drops smoothly then splutters due to low rpm, and dies.

 

There is enough fuel in the tank (otherwise it wouldn't fire up and idle smoothly every time), it's been recently serviced, and Peugeot have recently re-tracked the AFM and cleaned/adjusted/reset the TB (within last 2000 miles/3 months). The car has been running perfectly before this and I've had no symptoms like it ever before.

 

When the engine starts to die, I am able to blip the throttle (certainly not gently - quite vigorously) in quick succession and it will stay alive for as long as I wish while I'm doing this. Should I at this point hold my foot steady, (at any given position on the pedal) the engine drops over another 2-3 secs, then dies - regardless of the fact the throttle will be open.

I can only keep the engine alive if I'm blipping the throttle.

 

Anyone experienced anything like this before?

 

Any and all help very much appreciated,

 

Tom

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

yes when I first got my car it done the exact same thing, one of the reasons I got it so cheap. I replaced SAD, TPS and ECU temp sensor all in one go and sure enough it fixed itself. Dont know what the cause was but must of been one of them 3.

[tompaltridge 0]

Thanks for that info, where on the block exactly would I find the temp sensor? Also are they expensive and could I pick one up at GSF or the like?

 

Regards,

 

Tom

[boldy205 75]

Ah the good old temp sensor!! its blue and behind the thermostat (as in oppasite side of engine) try connection first but when they go they tend to not let the engine start atall as it floods the engine with fuel. odd how its when the engine gets warm. Is it a lack of fuel? Can you small it when cranking the engine and it not starting once it has cut out??

[28CRAIG 2]

If temp sensor does not work try the tachymetric relay.

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

Its not odd that it will start the engine as the SAD is open and it has the extra air to cope, its once the sad starts to close down it over fuels. Usually it just wets the plugs and they need time to dry again. Try wipping a sparkie out and have a look if its sooty from over fueling.

Another option could be the ignition amp is over heating and cutting the spark off. Next time it cuts out and wont restart check for spark.

[steve@cornwall 100]

cti did a similar thing last week! I'd soaked the coil filling the expansion bottle, and when drying it off, I'd dislodged a wire (-) from the coil! I think it was to do with the tachymetric relay supply, as fuel is then supplied whilst cranking, but not when running?

[tompaltridge 0]

I think I'll give the temp sensor a go, is it the metal unit that the SAD is bolted to (which is on a seperate bracket, slightly away from the block), that has water coming from the heater matrix coming through it and a wiring connector plug on the side?

Or is it totally different and bolted into the actual block somewhere?

Tom

[tompaltridge 0]

Sorry to double post!!!

 

One more thing relating to some of the advice: I can smell very stong exhaust fumes when the car has been on for the few seconds it will stay alive.

After it's cut out, I'll smell lots of 'old pertol car smell' from the exhaust; like a Carburettor vehicle with the choke fully on.

 

My car is a non cat so it often smells a little 'fuelly' in the exhaust (more than modern cars with cat's that don't smell at all) especially at cold startup, but this did catch my attention more than usual when I was checking things yesterday.

 

I've not noticed any actual fuel smell coming from the engine bay when I crank it and it won't start but I will check this further and check the plugs too..

 

Tom

[Phil205 1 1 Cars]

Sorry to double post!!!

 

One more thing relating to some of the advice: I can smell very stong exhaust fumes when the car has been on for the few seconds it will stay alive.

After it's cut out, I'll smell lots of 'old pertol car smell' from the exhaust; like a Carburettor vehicle with the choke fully on.

 

My car is a non cat so it often smells a little 'fuelly' in the exhaust (more than modern cars with cat's that don't smell at all) especially at cold startup, but this did catch my attention more than usual when I was checking things yesterday.

 

I've not noticed any actual fuel smell coming from the engine bay when I crank it and it won't start but I will check this further and check the plugs too..

 

Tom

 

Tom,

 

Sorry, I don't have the answer to your problem. I was just wondering, how do you re-track an AFM ? How much did the Peugeot garage charge to do this ? Presumably the garage would also need to re-setup the fuel mix via the allen screw ?

 

Hope you get sorted.

 

Phil

[steve@cornwall 100]

Sounds like the ecu temp. sensor- here's a picture I found (from Welshpug) whilst I was searching for a picture (think it was from Pugtorque) which had the positions of the sensors for various years gtis. In any case it will be at the gearbox end of the head, under the dizzy.Either pointing towards the inner wing (probably) or towards the bulkhead at the rear. The socket that plugs over it is the same colour blue.

Check that the oil on the dipstick doesn't reek of petrol, if it does, change it straight away!!!

[ashley peddle 3]

bore wash is bad mkay

 

they are only a few quid from peugeot (£7 if i remeber rightly)

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

The plugs for the SAD & CTS (ecu temp sensor) haven't been crossed have they?

 

Easily done & iirc causes somethings very similar to this when they are.

 

Graham.

[tompaltridge 0]

Ok, been quite busy recently so the 205's been sat waiting for me to fix it.

 

I bought the part I needed recently from my local Peugeot dealer. On their invoice it says 'temperature switch'. It certainly looks similar to the photo on this thread.

However after having a look in my engine bay today, I'm confused.

 

Firstly there are 2 almost identical looking plugs/sensors that are bolted into the gearbox end of the block (or head - I didn't look closely) and they are right next to each other: about 1 or 2 cm apart. They both face the same way - straight towards the bulkhead, and they both have one single male spade connector on them. Both have (obviously) a female spade connector attached and their respective single wires run into the loom/larger wiring route below.

 

Now, also down near them is something I mentioned before - another plug/sensor that's bolted into the separate unit that water from the heater matrix passes through. This metal unit is what the SAD bolts directly to, so should be easily distinguishable and well known about!

On the side of it (directly pointing at the nearside inner wing) is the sensor that is clearly - I assume! - measuring the temp of the coolant passing though.

This sensor however, has a larger electrical plug attached to it - more like the one shown in the picture above, and it's blue.

 

So:

 

1 - What's what??!

 

2 - Which one is the one that I should replace and what's it's specific name incase I have to order another part from Peugeot?

 

3 - Which one have I ordered? The one I've bought has a fatter end, and only a spade connection, not a larger style connector block as per the photo above. The part number is 0242.43 which is indeed the temp switch according to a link from an aussiefrogs thread I found. In that thread there is a 'temp probe' (part number 0242.46) which is the one in the side of that water housing. Is that the part I really need to replace? Here's some links:

 

Water housing

 

This second one is the other link showing the 2 sensors with spade connectors:

 

2 With spade connectors

 

P.S. Can anyone tell me how to upload pictures, as I've got one of the part I ordered and wanted people to veify it but can't seem to get a picture on here! Thanks

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

The two with the spade connectors are the water temperature sender & the temp warning switch. Earth the wires against the block to see which wire does waht but not sure which sensnor does what. IIrRC the wire with the red spade goes to the sender with the red ring on &

 

The one you need will be as you found in your last post 0242.46 which is in the coolant temp sensor housing beneath the dizzy with the SAD bolted to the bottom of it.

 

Yolu can't upload pictures to the forum until you reach driver status usergroup but you can post an image if you have an account with a hosting company (imageshack or photobucket) within the requested file sizes.

 

Graham.