DjB 0 Posted August 28, 2007 I've done some research and I've decided to stick with the 8V motor instead of going with a 16V.. The long term plan is to build up a hot motor and the induction system is the only thing that I can't sort out or get my head around... The biggest thing that stumps me is why are you going guys reverting back to carbs. After search through some olds threads I can see that they do produce more torque and power but what is the driveability like? I would rather stick with EFI mainly due to the flexibilty and reliability of a well setup system. I should add that is only my opinion and not a statement....LOL..I'm more than happy to be proven wrong if I can be supplied with some evidence.. The other option I though of is a quad throttle body setup. I actually have a set of these lying around. I would imagine that they would operate with similar results to webers wouldn't they? One barrel per cylinder, the real difference I can see is fuel jets versus fuel injectors. The Quad setup I have is off a 4AGE20Valve. I haven't taken measurements yet but they look pretty good. To make the above mentioned quad system work I imagine the std ecu wouldn't be up to the task (again, I'm fairly new to 205s so please correct me). How far can you go with std computer. Or is this (the computer and std manifold) the main reasoning for going to carbs. A fairly mixed bag of questions but I'm trying to learn as quick as possible. Thanks again, Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camgti 56 Posted August 28, 2007 Hey There, Firstly need to know what series 205 you have (also from OZ myself) because early Australian cars have low compression and to get the best results need to be raised. This does cost a bit of cash but its worth it. The best way is to deck the block and liners.(www.aussiefrogs.com have great info aswel for the OZ stuff). Throttle bodies are a great way to go, although the computer will need to be replaced with say a haltech unit, with an 8v motor they do make a great drivable car. Loads of grunt but as stated the compression needs to be raised to get any worthwhile results. With the standard ECU raised compression, slight head work and a cam regrind you can also have a quick fun car, agian there are a few guys on the ozzy site with loads of info about this, Peter T to name one. The guys in the uk (on this site) use carbs im guessing as they are easier to come by, cheaper to buy and they dont need any ecu and the like to run them. They still make good power but the fuel injected throttle bodies are the way to go if you can afford them. (if you already have them then you should go this route) Hope this helps Cam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DjB 0 Posted August 28, 2007 Mine 205 is actually a privately imported one.. As far as your reasoning goes, it looks like im on the right rack. Aussiefrogs you say... Will have to check it out. Do the Aussie 205 owners get together all that much for a cruise or a catch up? Thanks Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 191 Posted August 28, 2007 The essence of the problem with tuning and the original injection system, is that longer duration cams do not give the relatively smooth airflow into the engine that you see wit h the standard cams. This means the airflow meter reads erratically and hampers the injection system's ability to accurately fuel the engine. You will also reach a point were there isn't enough compensation or projection in the original fuel map to serve the volume of air. Separating the cylinders with individual inlet tracts serves to improve the cylinder filling at low to mid range speeds and part throttle, most dramatically with longer duration cams. Good tract design and tuned length is essential to this effect. The secondary issue is ignition. If you map ignition fully according to load an speed, you can see how vague distributors are, not so bad with standard engines, but tuned engines on distributors will always have huge compromises somewhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DjB 0 Posted August 28, 2007 So computer management is another issue. I have a Wolf3D (I'm not sure if Wolfs get across to Europe), but that can fully program both fuel and ignition maps. With a fully programmable ECU, can quads, a cam and head work be made drivable for day to day use? Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camgti 56 Posted August 28, 2007 Yea that setup would be great, just make sure you also look at the head and give it a touch up and flow to get the most out of it. The aussie frogs site is really very good for 205 stuff. There are some serious track cars on there (not heaps but regular forum contributers) and they know there stuff. Most of the stuff in OZ has been designed from scratch and the guys making the stuff have all been there and done it type people who race and are engineers and the likes. Most ppl are fairly good at catching up, there is quite a few 205 on the AF site in Melbourne and some 205 mi16s aswel. Hope we can help you out. (im currently building a 205 MI16 with quad throttles and heaps of other stuff) cameron.price@gmail.com is my e amil, if your after a few refferals let me know but the guys on this site are FULL of info and suggestions. Do use the search function as most of every topic has been bought up before. Cam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DjB 0 Posted August 28, 2007 Thanks again............ I'll be sure to check Aussiefrogs out Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gti_al 1 Posted August 28, 2007 (edited) Seeing as you have everything you may as well put it together. My issue with worked 8 valves is that after all your effort and expense you will have little (most likely zero) improvement over a 16 valve, and have to live with a modified engine. With proper management and a good induction setup drivability shouldn't be compromised excessively though, so your results should be good. What colour is your car? Black by any chance? I know of a couple of imported black 205s in melb... Aussiefrogs is good too, but i think you have started in the right place. Edited August 28, 2007 by gti_al Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ashley peddle 3 Posted August 28, 2007 (edited) bored about plugging carbs now so il just say this: - cheaper then TB's - less wiring (and lets face it - the french were never all that hot on the wiring front were they ) - they sound awesome - they make your car pop/bang/flame - you can creap up on hairdressers in their soft tops whilst just off cam and then scare the sh*t out of them with one squeese of the pedal - tunnels - there arnt enough of them! only bad point is that they cost a fortune in fuel costs mainly because of the reasons above you tend to keep your foot planted. you start measuring fuel consumption in smiles per gallon (because you get more smiles than miles unfortunatly, lol!) Edited August 28, 2007 by ashley peddle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DjB 0 Posted August 28, 2007 Black mine is.... I live in Rowville. The plan is to build up a 2nd motor. I'll post up some pics of the gear I have once I figure out to.... Hahahaha.. Unfortunantly I'm after half decent fuel economy.. I have all the parts here anyways so ill stick it out with the quads at this stage.... Just need to track down a 2nd XU9JA.... Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gti_al 1 Posted August 28, 2007 If you want economy and drivability i would go 16 valve. Mine is insanely economical, quick and smooth. You should get decent money selling your stuff... Have you seen asanka around rowville? White S1 205, or 306 on 16'' white rims... And did you buy ants car? There surely can't be more than two black uk cars in melb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camgti 56 Posted August 28, 2007 Yea ill agree with Al there on the "youve started in the right place" the AF site is a little full of old gerrys that reckon tuning a car ruins it. Al how is your car going. Ive been off with the pixies for ages and mine should be on the road really soon. Is your motor stock?? Cam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gti_al 1 Posted August 28, 2007 (edited) Yea ill agree with Al there on the "youve started in the right place" the AF site is a little full of old gerrys that reckon tuning a car ruins it. Al how is your car going. Ive been off with the pixies for ages and mine should be on the road really soon. Is your motor stock?? Cam Hurry the f*ck up cam... you got your stuff before i got a 205! The head has had a bit done to it, but i ran out of cash so didn't end up going with forged pistons etc in the bottom end. I doubt it is any more powerful than standard, but it was all rebuilt and a handful in a 205. Can't see myself spending any more cash on "improvements", but it will be tidied up a bit. Mi16s go good in 205s... i can't believe how much quicker it feels (and better it sounds) there than in a 405. What happened to the fiat anyway? Or was it an alfa? Edited August 28, 2007 by gti_al Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camgti 56 Posted August 28, 2007 Haha, Yea got the alfa thats why the 205 was on the back burner. The engine has been at Owen Wullimens since about May so i cant do much until hes finished it. I also decided to go the full flogg so its costing an arm aswell. Full rebuild more compression through decking the block, haltech and throttle bodies, stage 2 or 3 inlet and maby stage 1 exhaust from PeterT also little things like no dizzy, all individual coils. Gti6 brakes, 309 rear beam and lower front arms aswel as the shafts, quaiff diff new interior. Spoke to owen a few days ago, engine should be done by end of september so i guess running and run in by october sometime. Time consuming but i guess it will be worth it... Cam (ps it will be for sale as soon as its ready cause i want to get over seas) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hodgy 0 Posted August 28, 2007 the reason i went with bike carbs is it cost me bout £350 to do my self.throtle bodies are the best way to go but will set you back bout £1000 plus you have to pay someone to set them up. its all bout money and how big your budget is. a problem i have with the carbs is the cold rainy days but you wont get many of them so i cant see them been a problem for you over there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DjB 0 Posted August 28, 2007 Mine came from a dude in Richmond..... I'll probably stick it our with 8Vs...... I'm a stickler for old school... We should organise a get together for the Melbourne boys.. Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gti_al 1 Posted August 28, 2007 (edited) Mine came from a dude in Richmond..... I'll probably stick it our with 8Vs...... I'm a stickler for old school... We should organise a get together for the Melbourne boys.. Chris There was one this saturday, but i've put it back as nobody could make it... join up on af and have a look. there must be a few uk cars around though- i drove a one in armadale, and there is another that belongs to a pccv guy. They are both black too! Edited August 28, 2007 by gti_al Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rapidmi 4 Posted August 28, 2007 downsides tho, u need to keep ontop of them ie have them jetted set up everyso often etc cost a fortune to run ull get a sore head with the smell of fuel but the sheer roar from them makes up for it all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 191 Posted August 28, 2007 Well set up carbs will stay fairly accurate as the engine changes, often better than TB's, which don't generally have compensation. I will insist the point that good, mapped 3D ignition control solves most of the issues people have with carbs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DjB 0 Posted August 28, 2007 The other thing I though is what do you do with the existing part of the loom that envolves the injector, tb sensor, oxygen sensor and stuff? You would half the loom in there doing nothing really.. I'm a stickly for neatness.. Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 191 Posted August 29, 2007 Me too, so I always prefer to take the loom out, unwrap it, remove the unnecessaries, and re-wrap/tube it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars Posted August 29, 2007 Me too, so I always prefer to take the loom out, unwrap it, remove the unnecessaries, and re-wrap/tube it. Amen to that, takes an extra half hour but well worth the efforts. I usually extend a few ires as well while its unwrapped so the loom can be placed in a neater fashion around the engine bay and the brown multiplug in the bay can be disposed of. After all prevention is better than cure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boldy205 75 Posted August 29, 2007 Carbs are cheaper and easyer to instal than T/B setup, they do away with a lot of the wiring which (in my orginal 8V) played all kind of tricks. If you use a T/B setup i would replace the loom with new wiring. They sound great, (over std injection) but drink fuel! WWWWARRRPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!! Ps.I got a pair of 45s on my MI16. as you can tell, i like them a bit!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
