No Spark Or Fuel, Help Please

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

judgement day finally came, tried to start the car, turn on ignition and the fuel pump primes, definatley got fuel in as I put some super in this morning. Anyway theres no signs of it firing. Ive had the multimeter out and have 12v at the coils and at the injectors but it seems they arent triggering at all. Im guessing its either a map fault, well ms not configured correctly or its the crank position sensor is dead. Crank sensor has 5v to it as expected but I dont know how to test if it is giving a signal back. Can anyone advise so I can start ruling things out please

[welshpug 1,655]

isnt there a facility to add an LED to the case so you know when you have power, and a different colour/additional LED lit when you have TDC signal?

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

ive put a different crank sensor in from a running engine and still the same, also refering to auto data tests on the crank sensor it seems to be fine. I think I may be getting some fuel as you can smell it through the bodies and exhaust. Guessing it may be a map issue.

[Guest larson]

Do you have your laptop with Megatune or Megatunix connected to ECU when trying to start the engine?

You should see some 200-400 on the RMP gauge during cranking. Megatune will also show status "cranking" in real time display.

If it's not reading any RPM then you should investigate VR input issue first of all and forget about fuel and spark for now.

There will be no fuel injected or spark until ECU nows engine is rotating.

 

Could you post your msq to have a look?

 

 

 

I had my engine started and running for several days on MS1 V3 with direct coilpack control.

But now it seems that my cambelt has snapped off, so no more joy. And it's after all that reading, learning and working on it

I'm quite sure it has nothing to do with MS or configuration though. But who nows.. still need to collect some energy before looking inside the engine bay.

Edited August 9, 2007 by larson

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

its not seeing any input from the VR, megatune doesnt show any rpm when cranking. I'll upload my msq for you to see now.

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

heres my msq

 

http://www.pgacnortheast.co.uk/startup.msq

Edited August 9, 2007 by Richie-Van-GTi

[Guest larson]

Can't see any attachment. I saw it somewhere on another thread but I'm not sure if it's still the same.

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

no its different now, there should be a web link there now. Can I ask how you wired your vr sender and also which jumpers you used. I have the VRIN to TACHSELECT and TSEL to VROUTINV. using pin 1 as signal, pin 2 as signal negative and pin 3 is connected to ecu earth. Have tried switching the pin 1 and 2 around with no success.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

right-click on the link and save-as .

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

it would appear that both crank sensors are dead, rechecked them with a good quality meter thanks to chris, only getting 350 ish ohms and 0.1 volts when cranking. Gonna get a new one if funds allow tomorrow, if not its time to visit the breakers armed with a multimeter.

[Guest larson]

no its different now, there should be a web link there now. Can I ask how you wired your vr sender and also which jumpers you used. I have the VRIN to TACHSELECT and TSEL to VROUTINV. using pin 1 as signal, pin 2 as signal negative and pin 3 is connected to ecu earth. Have tried switching the pin 1 and 2 around with no success.

 

Yes, mine is the same:

TACHSELECT-VRIN

TSEL-VROUTINV

 

VR sensor is connected differently though:

pin1 - ground

pin2 - signal

pin3 - unconnected (shield is grounded on MS side)

 

However I've read it's not that important until higher revs.

 

Also consider checking transistors Q22 and Q23 on MS board if their legs are not bridged.

I had this on mine. MS was not reading engine speed at all.

Then I found Q23 to be soldered unproperly, there was continuity between two of the legs (leftmost if I can remember right).

 

Everything went fine with engine speed readings after correcting this.

Keep in mind it's difficult to unsolder and replace this little transistor without damaging it. If you need to of course. Hope you don't.

I've damaged track on the board near it, so had to solder replacement transistor on the proto area and connect other components to it using wires..

DIY anyway.

 

However if you are sure it's CPS then it should be checked first, right?

MS is not short term project, tell you.

 

Edited August 9, 2007 by larson

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

hmm, I did have a problem with one of them, I know they arent bridged now but it has made me wonder if I damaged the tracks on the board fixing it. Is there a schematic anywhere that shows what connects where on the board by the tracks? could run a few continuity checks to be sure.

[Guest larson]

hmm, I did have a problem with one of them, I know they arent bridged now but it has made me wonder if I damaged the tracks on the board fixing it. Is there a schematic anywhere that shows what connects where on the board by the tracks? could run a few continuity checks to be sure.

 

Yes. Right in the middle of the picture (Q22 ZTX553 and Q23 ZTX553).

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/v3pcb_3.gif

 

 

BTW: Q22 and Q23 are transistors of course, not diodes! I've edited my original post, sorry for mistake.

Edited August 9, 2007 by larson

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

Ive just checked and I have continuity across the circuit in the correct order so all the solders have taken as expected and I cant find any evidence of a short between any terminals. Hopefully its just the sender I can get one today.

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

reading your wiring above, when you say pin 1 ground is it on the megasquirt vr- or megasquirt ground or just chassis ground? Also I dont have shielded wire, I though the shield was inside the sender and comes out on pin 3? I currently have pin 1 signal, pin 2 vr - and pin 3 to megasquirt ground.

[Guest larson]

reading your wiring above, when you say pin 1 ground is it on the megasquirt vr- or megasquirt ground or just chassis ground? Also I dont have shielded wire, I though the shield was inside the sender and comes out on pin 3? I currently have pin 1 signal, pin 2 vr - and pin 3 to megasquirt ground.

 

I have separate wires going back from MS common ground (any pins 1-2 and 7-19) back to each of the sensors (CPS, CLT, MAT, TPS and O2).

Cable from the CPS connector to MS is two core shielded microphone cable, so there are two wires inside the shield.

One of the wires connects CPS connector pin1 and MS pin19 (it's pin19 in my case, you can use whichever ground pin you want)

Another wire connects CPS connector pin2 and MS pin24 (CPS signal/Tach input)

Shield is connected to the same MS pin19 together with CPS ground.

 

I have NOT connected shield to pin3 on CPS connector since I was not sure if shielded cable on CPS is not grounded to CPS sensor itself.

Shielding is effective only when grounded on one side, preferably ECU side.

 

After reading a lot of posts on MS forum about signal noise I jut wanted to be sure it will not be an issue in my install, so used shielded cable.

 

I've attached my wiring diagram (file larson_MS1_wiring_wasted_spark_Fidle-on-off_valve.gif. Also included relay/fuse box wiring diagram.

It is of low quality, couldn't do any better with export from MS Visio 6 format. It should be sufficient to describe what I mean though

Can send you .vsd files if you need them.

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

ok, I will switch my wiring to how you have yours and see if there is any further progress with it. I currently have pin one to pin 7, pin 2 to pin 24 and shield going to pin 19 but not connected to pin 3. I'll swap the wire on pin 1 to go to the shield and pin 19. I only have single core shielded wire at the moment so only the signal wire is on a shielded wire. Will swap the othe wire to shielded as well just to be sure

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

right, done exactly that with shielded cable running outside of the engine loom and still no joy , checked the realtime thing and it doesnt change at all. Do you have your msq file larson?

Edited August 10, 2007 by Richie-Van-GTi

[Guest larson]

ok, I will switch my wiring to how you have yours and see if there is any further progress with it. I currently have pin one to pin 7, pin 2 to pin 24 and shield going to pin 19 but not connected to pin 3. I'll swap the wire on pin 1 to go to the shield and pin 19. I only have single core shielded wire at the moment so only the signal wire is on a shielded wire. Will swap the othe wire to shielded as well just to be sure

 

 

I'm afraid this change will not solve your current problems

MS should be reading CPS signal even with your current setup. Signal could be noisy, unstable or whatever, but it should be there.

 

Should be something else.

 

Fingers crossed anyway, try this. At least you will make it more prone to electrical noise. This will be good for future.

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

I have tried that and still no luck , there must be a fault somewhere in the ecu I think. Might be time to call it a day and just bin the whole megasquirt idea and buy a pre built unit like omex or emerald. Seriously peed off now.

[Guest larson]

ok, I will switch my wiring to how you have yours and see if there is any further progress with it. I currently have pin one to pin 7, pin 2 to pin 24 and shield going to pin 19 but not connected to pin 3. I'll swap the wire on pin 1 to go to the shield and pin 19. I only have single core shielded wire at the moment so only the signal wire is on a shielded wire. Will swap the othe wire to shielded as well just to be sure

 

Chmmmm. I guess that's all I could do..

 

One last stupid question. Do you count pins on CPS as presented in the following picture?

 

Note that I have pin1 and pin2 connected differently, so that signal wire is connected to pin2 and ground to pin1.

This works when jumper on MS is set to TSEL-VROUTINV.

And I guess if you connect as per the picture then it works right with jumper set to TSEL-VROUT.

 

But any of these should work for starting. Just make sure that you count pins as described.

Edited August 10, 2007 by larson

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

yes I count pins as described there assuming thats the plug that is on the CPS, not the female part which is on the loom side.

Edited August 10, 2007 by Richie-Van-GTi

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

an update (it's now injecting fuel but still no spark).

 

not sure whats happening or how to test for it, I have ms1 with v3 board running extra code. Crank the car and everything is registering and its injecting fuel but I dont have a spark. Im running an extra vb921 driver for a wasted spark set up. Coils have a good 12 volt feed as expected, how can I test the trigger wires without a stim and what should I be seeing?

[welshpug 1,655]

I guess you have physically checked for a spark?

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

yes, there is definatley no spark. I think it possibly another jumper issue but before I started pulling the ecu apart again I wanted to check what I could physically check cranking the car.